SUPERMAN RETURNS: Ottman Wants More SOLARIS, Less Williams

[AndyDursin]

Someone on the FSM board excerpted this from the Superman fan home page -- an interview with John Ottman.
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Q: The question that everybody wants to know John, apart from the main Superman fanfare, will there be any other parts of John Williams' original score used in Superman Returns?

A: I don't think so. We tried out the Lois Lane theme (Can you read my mind), and, don't get me wrong, its a GREAT theme, but the feel of that theme over this contemporary film, it's gagging, and it's awful. It just seemed stupid. So I'm hoping that we don't have to do that. Just for the moment we're actualy temping with (the score from) 'Solaris'. It works really well, and more of it's kind of modern, so the film can go with it. Its important that the film goes somewhere without trying too hard to pay homage to the past. So to answer your question, besides the fanfare, the score will be original.

[AndyDursin]

Quite honestly you needn't go any further than this to realize what's WRONG with modern cinema.

Isn't great, classical music GREAT MUSIC regardless of its context? For John Ottman, apparently a score like Cliff Martinez's SOLARIS works better than one of the greatest scores of all-time...which makes you wonder if SUPERMAN RETURNS isn't going to be an out-and-out disaster. They want it both ways -- paying homage to the old movie, but making a "modern, contemporary" film (I always cringe when I read that -- makes you recall the '70s remakes of KING KONG and FLASH GORDON). If the movie doesn't work with Williams' music, how is Singer's approach -- a meshing of the '70s movie and his X-MEN films -- going to work?

I'll wait to pass judgment, but when I read stuff like this, it DOES make you wonder....why modern film music and movies, for the most part, fail to get the job done.

[Eric W.]

Quite honestly you needn't go any further than this to realize what's WRONG with modern cinema.

Isn't great, classical music GREAT MUSIC regardless of its context? For John Ottman, apparently a score like Cliff Martinez's SOLARIS works better than one of the greatest scores of all-time...which makes you wonder if SUPERMAN RETURNS isn't going to be an out-and-out disaster. They want it both ways -- paying homage to the old movie, but making a "modern, contemporary" film (I always cringe when I read that -- makes you recall the '70s remakes of KING KONG and FLASH GORDON). If the movie doesn't work with Williams' music, how is Singer's approach -- a meshing of the '70s movie and his X-MEN films -- going to work?

I'll wait to pass judgment, but when I read stuff like this, it DOES make you wonder....why modern film music and movies, for the most part, fail to get the job done.

Amen, brutha. I have almost no confidence after reading something like this, although I HOPE to be pleasantly surprised. (Shocked, really.)

[AndyDursin]

I wrote this over on the FSM Board, but I can see the score being a problem in the test screening stage. Can't you just imagine people expecting SUPERMAN and hearing...a bland Ottman score with flashes of SOLARIS?

FWIW, I think Williams' music is far more closely associated with the character than Ottman and Singer probably realize. The theme is still played ALL the time, whether it's the Super Bowl or a high school band concert. It's not just some dated relic of the '70s that would only work for "nostalgic" purposes.

So he's basically telling us he'll give us another X-MEN 2 with this score. Gee, can't wait for that!

[Eric W.]

I wrote this over on the FSM Board, but I can see the score being a problem in the test screening stage. Can't you just imagine people expecting SUPERMAN and hearing...a bland Ottman score with flashes of SOLARIS?

FWIW, I think Williams' music is far more closely associated with the character than Ottman and Singer probably realize. The theme is still played ALL the time, whether it's the Super Bowl or a high school band concert. It's not just some dated relic of the '70s that would only work for "nostalgic" purposes.

So he's basically telling us he'll give us another X-MEN 2 with this score. Gee, can't wait for that!

Superman and its score from Williams was something that transcended just the "film score enthusiasts." That piece of music is a mainstream staple that most people know.

If I go out, at random, on the street and start humming that Superman theme, most people are going to know what that is, especially past a certain age.

When you think of Superman, most people inevitably start thinking of that theme, at least.

Put the way you just did, and coming off of the fairly bland Fantastic Four score, I really have very little hope going into an Ottman scored Superman picture.

Xmen 2/Fantastic Four score for Superman is not good enough. It's that simple.

Look on the bright side though: At least they don't have Marco Beltrami or Trevor Rabin scoring this new Superman. See? Always something positive to dig out of any situation!

[scorehead]

Its has to be tricky ground for a film maker to tread into such sacred territory and to mess with such an entrenched icon as SUPERMAN. Truly, John Williams' anthem is as identifiable and is as bonded to the character as the iconic "S" branded to his chest, that to try and make a film without it is suicide. That is the problem - either they use Williams themes or they don't - and if they don't, then they're saying this is a a whole NEW SUPERMAN. One should feel some empathy for John Ottman. Who would want to be confronted with having to solve a very tricky problem and not come across as a first rate hack (too late?). It's almost as if they should just bite the bullet and hire John Williams to flesh out his earlier efforts as he did with the STAR WARS films. It's a no brainer - I mean, and this isn't a slam to Ottman's abilities as a composer, but could you imagine if he had been hired to patch together scores for the final STAR WARS installments? Yeeech!!!

Regards,

Scorehead

[AndyDursin]

Scorehead, you make a great point. That's my feeling though about this whole enterprise: Singer and Ottman have clearly stated they DO want to pay homage to and connect this movie with the Reeve films.

Well, if you're doing that, you're basically saying this is a continuation (of sorts) from those movies, which is what the two of them have said...and that to me a is a BIG problem, because if you invite comparisons and draw a connection with the originals (and they are -- heck, they're using BRANDO'S unused footage from SUPERMAN II apparently!), then you're asking for trouble IF you don't get the job done.

This ISN'T a "whole new SUPERMAN." It kind of is. And at the same time, it's "kind of" a sequel to the Reeve films. But if it doesn't have Williams' themes and is more like the music from SOLARIS.....well, you have to ask yourself what's going on with this project.

Your point about STAR WARS is exactly what I'm getting at. Just imagine using SOLARIS instead of Williams and you can guess how jarring it will be.

I still maintain this will be closely monitored once the movie is done and they go through the rounds of test screenings. The studio has too much riding on this for Ottman to turn in a X2 or FANTASTIC FOUR score.

[Eric W.]

Agreed all.

I'm not looking for a Willams impersonation. I'm just looking for a solid score, whether or not it uses any of Williams' original themes or not.

[scorehead]

Singer and Ottman have clearly stated they DO want to pay homage to and connect this movie with the Reeve films.

"Paying homage to" - I don't get this. The mere fact that they're making a SUPERMAN film means that they're paying homage. Seriously, as long as he has the big "S" on his chest, well, that's all the link that they need. That they seem crippled on such issues only shows how wishy-washy they are on this whole topic of "Paying Homage."

As to this film being in someway connected to the past films - the only link would be the Williams theme - which makes sense... if John Williams was scoring this film. Recently they did an overhaul with BATMAN and the only link to the past films was the overall feel of the film, which was just make it DARK. They totally forwent Elfman's themes and style, which were never a huge part of BATMAN'S identity. Elfman never accomplished what Williams was able to do, and that is to bond his theme as an essential part of the character. Rather, Elfman created a dark and gothic style of music that defined a franchise, as can be heard in the many variants, from what Goldenthal did on his sequels and even extending to Shirley Walkers and other composers efforts on the animated series. This has never happened to SUPERMAN. Williams style has often been imitated, but never duplicated - what you get in the end is saccharine - and I think that pretty much sums up how this film will feel.

Regards,

Scorehead

[Eric W.]

I couldn't agree with you more, scorehead.

[AndyDursin]

As to this film being in someway connected to the past films - the only link would be the Williams theme - which makes sense... if John Williams was scoring this film.

Yet it's far from the only link, which is what I find surprising. From the production design of many elements, to the recycling of Marlon Brando, it's very clear they want this connected with the old movies.

Because of that, I find it doubly surprising that Williams' themes don't fit. Also notice he said he's using the "Fanfare," which doesn't even mean the theme proper if you get my drift. He could use the first few notes and call it a day, then recycle Cliff Martinez's SOLARIS instead!

[scorehead]

Yeah - the Brando thing is freaky!!! It seems more appropriate they just reinsert that in SUPERMAN II, as a Special Edtion, and be done with it. It's so sad the state of SUPER HERO films. As the advent of technology has abeled film makers to do anything they want now, the sky seems to be the limit. So, armed with that, they decide to make bad films. It just makes me scratch my head!!!

As to SOLARIS, did that even have a theme? "Lets temp it with SOLARIS!" Just who the hell came up that idea? I would ahve loved to have been in the room when everyone said "Yeah - that sounds great!"

Sheeeesh!

Scorehead

[mkaroly]

As to SOLARIS, did that even have a theme? "Lets temp it with SOLARIS!" Just who the hell came up that idea? I would ahve loved to have been in the room when everyone said "Yeah - that sounds great!"

Sheeeesh!

Scorehead

Agreed! The Clooney version was just awful. I liked the Russian original much better- it was more thought-provoking.

The last thing people saw of SUPERMAN was SUPE III and IV- bad movies with terrible scores. I had no idea they planned to use Brando footage (which is kind of eerie now that he's dead, just like the planet Krypton and all its inhabitants, save one) from SUPE II.....

There has to be some other film out there with better music to use as a template for thsi new Superman movie than SOLARIS- it's alarming that they used that particual film as an example of the direction they want to go in....very weird.

[AndyDursin]

The last thing people saw of SUPERMAN was SUPE III and IV- bad movies with terrible scores. I had no idea they planned to use Brando footage (which is kind of eerie now that he's dead, just like the planet Krypton and all its inhabitants, save one) from SUPE II.....

SUPERMAN III was not that bad...SUPERMAN IV, though, was

[Eric W.]

The last thing people saw of SUPERMAN was SUPE III and IV- bad movies with terrible scores. I had no idea they planned to use Brando footage (which is kind of eerie now that he's dead, just like the planet Krypton and all its inhabitants, save one) from SUPE II.....

SUPERMAN III was not that bad...SUPERMAN IV, though, was

I doubt it will ever happen, but I keep hearing about "The real Superman IV" "The Un-edited, Director's Cut Superman IV" etc. I'd sure like to see that one time, just for academic purposes, even though IV as is left me permanently traumatized.