Gollum's Labyrinth? Tel Toro might direct The Hobbit...

[Paul MacLean]

Just saw this on the Hollywood Reporter. Guillermo Del Toro is in talks to direct The Hobbit...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/con ... 87024a2b8e


To me it is good news. I never did care for Peter Jackson's take on Tolkien, and think Del Toro could do something more interesting with it.

More specifically, this means Del Toro won't be directing Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, which I confess I didn't really want to see happen.

[AndyDursin]

Del Toro + Marco Beltrami scoring = no memorable theme whatsoever

[romanD]

Im pretty sure NLC wants Howard Shore to come back... I mean he gave them 3 oscars! Question is whether Shore wants to come back (and given his ongoing success with the scores Im sure he does) and whether he and Jackson still like each other.

Del Toro and Beltramis is in the air now, guess you all know he is using Elfman now on Hellboy 2, which is really odd. Elfman on another superhero movie is really not necessary and Hellboy had a couple STRONG themes...

maybe DelToro would use his spanish man Navarette on this, as he uses him more for his Fantasy movies and would maybe and probably fit more than anyone else for THE HOBBIT.

Why on earth they get exciting about Hobbit in general I dont know and make 2 (!) long movies out of a small children book... well... not really caring for it...

[Eric W.]

Del Toro + Marco Beltrami scoring = no memorable theme whatsoever

Wow, you said it.

Please bring Howard Shore back for this!

[Paul MacLean]

Del Toro + Marco Beltrami scoring = no memorable theme whatsoever

Wow, you said it.

Please bring Howard Shore back for this!

From my perspective, Jackson + Shore scoring also = no memorable theme whatsoever.

I still don't see why Shore's LOTR scores are so "brilliant". There's nothing particularly distinctive, original (and certainly not inventive) about them. They're very much the work of a lesser composer out of his depth and trying to pull off a John Williams / Jerry Goldsmith type of score. Musical considerations aside, they're not at all effective dramatically either -- they are overpowering in some scenes and lack sufficient punch in others, and seem generally random in their interpretation of the drama. Shore never gets inside the drama, and as a result his music contributes little more than sonic wallpaper. It fills the silence, but doesn't do a whole lot else.

[Eric W.]

From my perspective, Jackson + Shore scoring also = no memorable theme whatsoever.

I can remember a few themes from the LOTR Trilogy and hum them off the top of my head.

This is a somewhat harsh assessment IMO.

I still don't see why Shore's LOTR scores are so "brilliant". There's nothing particularly distinctive, original (and certainly not inventive) about them. They're very much the work of a lesser composer out of his depth and trying to pull off a John Williams / Jerry Goldsmith type of score.

I won't disagree with you on this.

Musical considerations aside, they're not at all effective dramatically either -- they are overpowering in some scenes and lack sufficient punch in others, and seem generally random in their interpretation of the drama. Shore never gets inside the drama, and as a result his music contributes little more than sonic wallpaper. It fills the silence, but doesn't do a whole lot else.

And yet it's still worlds better than the likes of a Marco Beltrami.

[mkaroly]

Del Toro + Marco Beltrami scoring = no memorable theme whatsoever

Wow, you said it.

Please bring Howard Shore back for this!

From my perspective, Jackson + Shore scoring also = no memorable theme whatsoever.

I still don't see why Shore's LOTR scores are so "brilliant". There's nothing particularly distinctive, original (and certainly not inventive) about them. They're very much the work of a lesser composer out of his depth and trying to pull off a John Williams / Jerry Goldsmith type of score. Musical considerations aside, they're not at all effective dramatically either -- they are overpowering in some scenes and lack sufficient punch in others, and seem generally random in their interpretation of the drama. Shore never gets inside the drama, and as a result his music contributes little more than sonic wallpaper. It fills the silence, but doesn't do a whole lot else.

I thought his Gollum theme was brilliant- musically I thought it truly captured the danger and tragic nature of the Smeagol/Gollum character. I've listened to those scores several times and don't get sick of them. I honestly think he succeeded in making music that supports the on-screen drama and, apart from the visuals, repaints the story with his leitmotifs. There are tons of moving moments in those scores (though at times it is too bombastic). I think I understand what you're saying, but I do feel there is a lot more depth to his scoring than others do.

Shore has a musical idiom and sticks to it- so while he doesn't vary much in his orchestration and sound, he's worlds better than the majority of what passes as film scoring today because, if for no other reason, he HAS a musical idiom. And I do think he has composed memorable themes(BIG, LOTR, SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, etc.) You hear his stuff and you know it's his. The rest of the stuff out there is up for grabs.

I don't feel he is a John Williams or a Jerry Goldsmith, but his body of work is solid and I do respect him. His work for David Cronenberg films is spot on nearly every time and captures a lot of the depth and emotional impact of his films.

[AndyDursin]

I'm not a big Shore fan either and I don't want to recycle past conversations but I agree with Paul -- his music really does not do much for me. I find his main theme for the trilogy redundant and none of it shakes me emotionally...more over the over-bearing action music especially in TWO TOWERS was too much.

I realize he wrote dozens upon dozens of themes, which can and have been dissected any number of ways academically. But that alone does not make them musically appealing to me personally. I just find them hollow and very un-lyrical, lacking heart, which is something I associate with Shore's music. His compositions are very cold, dense and hard to penetrate for me as a listener. For most of these Cronenberg films they work perfectly but I expected something more upbeat and less brooding than his LOTR symphonies.

That said, I'd rather him score THE HOBBIT than Beltrami, who's another of these young guys with all the right training but no apparent ability to write memorable themes or great music that exists on its own terms.

[TomServo]

I don't see how someone could listen to "The Breaking of the Fellowship" and find it cold in tone. I've also never been the biggest Shore fan and was skeptical of his involvement from the get-go, but as soon as heard FOTR back in 2001, I was hooked and loved everything he did for the films, from the crushing, massed brass, the breathtaking choral passages of both beauty and malice, the countless memorable themes and the music's ability to shift successfully from completely intimate moments to grand spectacle. Now, admittedly, I think the original album releases work better as a listening experience than the extended editions, but there is so much love and attention given to every single aspects of the LOTR films that I can't imagine simply dismissing them outright.

[Paul MacLean]

Given the fan following behind the soundtracks, I was willing to see if the scores are enjoyable apart from the film. But I have listened, and re-listened to this music a number of times since the films were released, and I repeatedly ask myself "What are people talking about?" The "themes" are very rudimentary, there's no connective tissue, and nothing to hook (much less keep) the listener's interest. In fairness Shore has a nice sense of instrumental color (assuming he orchestrates himself), but those scores mostly sound like random orchestrations with no substantial musical core...except for the stuff he filched from the church hymnal of course...

http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh144.sht

[AndyDursin]

Now, admittedly, I think the original album releases work better as a listening experience than the extended editions, but there is so much love and attention given to every single aspects of the LOTR films that I can't imagine simply dismissing them outright.

I don't "hate" or have a strong dislike for Shore's LOTR scores, nor did I ever "dismiss" them "outright". I just don't find them appealing.

"Dismissing outright" is what I usually do to John Ottman scores

[TomServo]

Now, admittedly, I think the original album releases work better as a listening experience than the extended editions, but there is so much love and attention given to every single aspects of the LOTR films that I can't imagine simply dismissing them outright.

I don't "hate" or have a strong dislike for Shore's LOTR scores, nor did I ever "dismiss" them "outright". I just don't find them appealing.

"Dismissing outright" is what I usually do to John Ottman scores

Hahahaha! Point to Dursin.

[TomServo]

Given the fan following behind the soundtracks, I was willing to see if the scores might possibly be enjoyable apart from the film. But I have listened, and re-listened to this music a number of times since the films were released, and I repeatedly ask myself "What are people talking about?" The "themes" are very rudimentary, there's no connective tissue, and nothing to hook (much less keep) the listener's interest. In fairness Shore has a nice sense of instrumental color (assuming he orchestrates himself), but those scores mostly sound like random orchestrations with no substantial musical core...except for the stuff he filched from the church hymnal of course...

http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh144.sht

I don't know what kind of "connective tissue" would have been applicable in the case of a story spanning thousands years, following dozens of characters and diverse cultures with imagined yet rich histories. The Ring theme is probably the best connective tissue, but even that has three themes to represent its malice, its seductive power and the language of Mordor, where it was created. Each culture received different instrumentation and often varying soloists, but they needed to emphatically sketch out musically the differences in said cultures, just as Tolkein does in the book, not bind them with a single theme. And there actually is connective tissue in much of the melodic material, where the notes from the Fellowship theme might be spun off to create a new theme, or an existing theme receives expansion much later, ever growing as the story progresses.

I just don't think a normal film score approach of a single theme, its variations and maybe a few motifs would have supported a 12 hour film of this scope and magnitude. It's okay to not like it, but I seriously don't think any other music would have been appropriate for these films other than what Shore composed.

[Paul MacLean]

I was never really here nor there about Shore prior to Lord of the Rings. His scores for Cronnenberg and Demme seemed apt enough. I could never recall a note of them but they didn't seem to detract. Unlike many people who were horrified when it was announced that Shore would be scoring LOTR, I honestly thought it would be interesting to hear from someone who had never done this kind of film before (and I was just happy that New Line didn't allow Jackson to hire Wojcek Killar).

But I was very disappointed. In terms of dramatic approach, Shore can do expressionistic horror and suspense, but the LOTR scores never captured the epic grandeur, or heroic action, or sentiment depicted on screen.

I don't know what kind of "connective tissue" would have been applicable in the case of a story spanning thousands years, following dozens of characters and diverse cultures with imagined yet rich histories.

But the story of LOTR only really spans one year (except for the brief prologue at the outset of the first film, which I'm not sure lasts long enough to really count).

By "connective tissue" I don't mean presence of themes or leitmotivs necessarily, but simply the fabric of the music itself. I find the LOTR scores to be little more than orchestrations -- beautiful orchestrations to be sure; Shore is a master of timbre and instrumental color -- but nothing melodically compelling to hang on to.