STAR TREK Official Thread -- Reactions *Spoilers*

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AndyDursin
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#76 Post by AndyDursin »

Im not convinced of the score so far, but it certainly ranks higher than Star Trek 3, 4, 9 and 10... if Id like the theme I would certainly rate it higher!
Star Trek III and IV had themes -- so did IX and X. Actually I think the INSURRECTION score has a lovely, memorable theme. NEMESIS was one of Jerry's most disappointing scores, no question, but from the samples I've heard of Giacchino I'd prefer third-rate Goldsmith over Giacchino any day of the week.

You know, it's funny, I've seen people writing this "don't expect a Goldsmith score, it's not written in that vein, movies today don't need that type of dramatic statement" kind of message. I think that's a cop-out excuse for why so much film music today sucks (for lack of a better term). Not you Roman, but someone at the FSM board did say that -- that they didn't care for the "operatic" nature of the early Trek scores.

Frankly, if people like mediocre music with no themes -- which requires no (or at least far lesser) talent to write -- that's great. But don't try and tell me that writing a non-thematic musical wallpaper score requires the same amount of talent as what Goldsmith and Horner, or any of the great film composers for that matter -- did. There's a degree of difficulty there and film music today often doesn't even try and achieve anything other than a formulaic assembly of cues, often percussive in nature, that sound like 100 other scores that are inseparable from each other. Paul MacLean brought over a copy of Tyler Bates' DAWN OF THE DEAD, which to me is a prime example of that -- every cue sounds like something else, there's no style, there's no distinguishing trademark, it sounds like a temp-track with NO CONNECTIVE THEMATIC TISSUE holding anything together. Sadly I could say that about nearly every score I hear these days.

As far as this score goes, it sounds exactly like I thought it would Roman. There's no THEME, or if there is, it's lousy. And that basically sums up film music in the year 2009. A shame.

romanD
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#77 Post by romanD »

im pretty sure many will love the score, it just depends on whether you like the theme or not... sometimes you like one, sometimes you dont...

Star Trek 3 is to me just a lazy rewrite of part 2... never caught fire on that score, part 4 has a very nice title theme, but I always found it at odds with the rest of the score, which really makes my ears cry... you can't really say it is intergrated much into it either, the bulk of the score is obnoxious noise... that that got an oscar nomination is beyond me...

INSURRECTIONS theme was nice, but the rest of the score lame Goldsmith autopilot... Giacchino's work is certainly not worse than those lame Goldsmith works... Jerry really just phoned them in, though the films were of course not as inspiring as the THE MOTION PICTURE...

don't be too harsh on Giacchino, for me, it is just not my cup of tea, but he certainly is one of the best upcoming composers...

still, I just listened to BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS and thought how great that would have been if Horner came back and just got into his 80ies mode... he hasnt written anything like that in such a long time, which is such a shame (ok, that score rips of a lot, but still, the style is fantastic and i love the theme)...

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#78 Post by John Johnson »

romanD wrote:
Star Trek 3 is to me just a lazy rewrite of part 2... never caught fire on that score, part 4 has a very nice title theme, but I always found it at odds with the rest of the score, which really makes my ears cry... you can't really say it is intergrated much into it either, the bulk of the score is obnoxious noise... that that got an oscar nomination is beyond me...
I agree, there are portions of the score for Trek III that could have been better, but there are moments of brilliance such as Stealing the Enterprise.
As for the score for Trek IV, the theme was too similar to Lord Of the Rings. The rest of Rosenman's score is pretty forgettable.
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romanD
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#79 Post by romanD »

STEALING... is the only cue I liked to play... the rest is really boring...

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AndyDursin
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#80 Post by AndyDursin »

John Johnson wrote:[I agree, there are portions of the score for Trek III that could have been better, but there are moments of brilliance such as Stealing the Enterprise. As for the score for Trek IV, the theme was too similar to Lord Of the Rings. The rest of Rosenman's score is pretty forgettable.
I'm one of the few, it seems, who likes Rosenman's score. The main theme is similar to a dozen other Rosenman scores, sure, but it's also upbeat and jubilant, and sets the tone of the film a bit better than even Horner's score would have. I also liked the theme he wrote for the whales, which was tuneful and quite effective.

III is overall a lazy Horner effort. It has that one cue John mentions but his Klingon theme isn't a patch on Goldsmith's, and the rest of the score is pretty much auto pilot...especially after II.

As far as Jerry's scores go, TMP is a classic, V is excellent, FIRST CONTACT is decent, INSURRECTION is alright (I do like the theme), and NEMESIS ranks at the bottom.

I've never been crazy about Eidelman's VI, but I do find McCarthy's GENERATIONS to be quite good and underrated.
Last edited by AndyDursin on Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AndyDursin
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#81 Post by AndyDursin »

I've heard more of Giacchino's score through some additional samples, and I've got to say -- it's not that bad. It has some energy. So my low expectations have at least been surpassed, even if it's only by a small amount.

I think the problem is what Roman outlines -- his main theme. It could've been written for BATMAN, it's just a bit basic and formulaic (actually, it sounds more like, say, Goldenthal's Batman theme than most of the past Star Trek scores).

As we discussed above, it's also weird how he mixes in a full statement of Courage's TV theme at the end -- using Goldsmith's theme would've been a lot more appropriate, as we mentioned before, I just find Courage's theme so "'60s" that it's a bit dated. I figured Giacchino would've used the opening fanfare, not the entire theme -- but he does, several times, to close out the movie. Odd. We'll have to see how it works.

Overall, the rest of it seems okay from what I heard, if a bit too "busy," like most modern film scores. If the whole score is similar to what I listened to, I can't see myself listening to it on its own, but at least the whole score doesn't sound like LOST.

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#82 Post by romanD »

I agree, I found Eidelman's effort quite overrated and GENERATIONS quite underrated, some of the actionstuff is really good and kicks some scenes :-)

For me the 60ies theme is also a bit odd and dated, but it makes more sense than Goldsmith's theme, which is now more associated with the next generation... for me at least.

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#83 Post by AndyDursin »

For me the 60ies theme is also a bit odd and dated, but it makes more sense than Goldsmith's theme, which is now more associated with the next generation... for me at least.
Not for me. It was established in TMP and V, so it bonds all the "generations" together. Goldsmith's theme is always the "TMP theme" in my mind ;)

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#84 Post by romanD »

i understand, but it has been used in 180 tv episodes, so I guess that's what most people connect it more with... and the one thing that showed up in all scores was courage's theme... though not the swinging thing then...

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#85 Post by AndyDursin »

romanD wrote:i understand, but it has been used in 180 tv episodes, so I guess that's what most people connect it more with... and the one thing that showed up in all scores was courage's theme... though not the swinging thing then...
That's true. Yet not one prior TREK film score has a full statement of Courage's theme the way this one does. I just find it very at odds with the tone of the rest of his score, in a way the Goldsmith theme would not have been. It's not a "throwback" score the way some of Giacchino's game scores are, which makes its usage just very, very strange.

Overall because of my low expectations the score is a bit better than I anticipated, yet at the same time, I'm still disappointed on balance. I think a lot of people will be.

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#86 Post by mkaroly »

Andy, I also like the ST IV score. ST:TMP is excellent, ST II and III are basically the same scores (which I don't blame Horner for too much since III was a "direct sequel" to II), I think V and VI are okay but better than GENERATIONS, and I like FC, INSURRECTION (gorgeous themes in that one) and I am in the minority of those who like NEMESIS despite it being a lesser Goldsmith. I just do- I posted on the Goldsmith thread why I liked it.

I want to buy the new score for the new film, but not until after I've heard it in the movie.

****You know, it's funny, I've seen people writing this "don't expect a Goldsmith score, it's not written in that vein, movies today don't need that type of dramatic statement" kind of message. I think that's a cop-out excuse for why so much film music today sucks (for lack of a better term). Not you Roman, but someone at the FSM board did say that -- that they didn't care for the "operatic" nature of the early Trek scores.

Frankly, if people like mediocre music with no themes -- which requires no (or at least far lesser) talent to write -- that's great. But don't try and tell me that writing a non-thematic musical wallpaper score requires the same amount of talent as what Goldsmith and Horner, or any of the great film composers for that matter -- did. There's a degree of difficulty there and film music today often doesn't even try and achieve anything other than a formulaic assembly of cues, often percussive in nature, that sound like 100 other scores that are inseparable from each other. Paul MacLean brought over a copy of Tyler Bates' DAWN OF THE DEAD, which to me is a prime example of that -- every cue sounds like something else, there's no style, there's no distinguishing trademark, it sounds like a temp-track with NO CONNECTIVE THEMATIC TISSUE holding anything together. Sadly I could say that about nearly every score I hear these days.****

Andy, I agree.

Eric W.
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#87 Post by Eric W. »

I definitely also agree with you, Andy.

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AndyDursin
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#88 Post by AndyDursin »

Just noticed if folks are planning on seeing TREK Thursday that there are ample shows from 7pm on -- not just at midnight. Good thing I just checked! ;)

Eric W.
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#89 Post by Eric W. »

AndyDursin wrote:Just noticed if folks are planning on seeing TREK Thursday that there are ample shows from 7pm on -- not just at midnight. Good thing I just checked! ;)
Good deal. I might hit one of those but it'll probably be Friday for me.

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#90 Post by AndyDursin »

I am definitely going tomorrow night, depending on which ones my wife and/or friend can make. Will make writing the review Friday easier if I've already seen it :)

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