CAPTAIN MARVEL - Music Controversy?

[AndyDursin]

That's right, I should have said Carol Danvers, who bounced around when I was reading Marvel Comics. Back in the 80s, she was some other heroine, while the Ms. Marvel suit was inherited by a female wrestler who joined the Fantastic Four, then got turned into a female version of The Thing. (No, surely not the highpoint of that comic book's run

I don't know enough about the history of the character, but it sure looks like a rerun of the Green Lantern: air force pilot ends up gaining alien powers, gets whisked away to another universe, comes back, pals along with and fights creatures, etc.

[Paul MacLean]

[Monterey Jack]

I can sort of understand Wonder Woman and Black Panther being big, cultural deals for women and black audiences...while there were certainly superhero movies with female and black protagonists before, none of them were any GOOD. Prior to Black Panther, the best you could do were the Blade films -- which, Del Toro's second one aside, are not very good -- or something like Steel with Shaq. And female-driven superhero/comic book stuff was garbage like Supergirl, Barb Wire and the Halle Berry Catwoman WW, in particular, is THE most famous female superhero of them all, and it was kind of astounding she never appeared in live-action following the 70s TV series until Batman V Superman, and there she was just tossed in in a half-assed attempt at jerry-rigging an Avengers-style team-up a few years down the road.

The irony is, we've had plenty of good female and black heroes in the MCU already....just in supporting roles. Black Widow's been kicking ass for the last nine years, Evangeline Lilly's Wasp had a significant role in the Ant-Man sequel, and Anthony Mackie and Don Cheadle have offered solid support to the Captain America and Iron Man movies. It's silly that Just Another Marvel Movie like Captain Marvel is being treated as the most culturally important movie since Schindler's List, because it affords a woman the privilege of...playing dress-up in a silly costume and punching CGI creatures in the face, just like her male counterparts.

[tjguitar85]

I had no idea there was all this feminism stuff being promoted, I just enjoyed the movie. *shrug*

[Monterey Jack]

Hey, Pinar Toprak's score actually has prominent use of WOODWINDS. It's obviously not great, but by the barren standards of MCU scoring, it's better than you'd expect.

The movie was fun, if disposable, and it isn't nearly as obnoxious in its Go Girl feminism than people have been grousing about. A solid 7.5/10.

[Johnmgm]

I took my daughter to see Captain Marvel and tend to agree with Monterey’s analysis, except I would only go 5 on the rating, maybe 6 compared to other Marvel product.

My big take-a-way is I haven’t seen Samual L. Jackson so lose and fun in a movie in a long, long time. Now I remember why I liked him so much in the ‘90s.

I also think the media flacks at Marvel/Disney are geniuses. They managed to turn a completely average movie into a talking point and convinced vast numbers of people that Captain Marvel is important. It’s not, it’s a slightly better than average addition to a (IMO) tiresome franchise.

[AndyDursin]

I also think the media flacks at Marvel/Disney are geniuses. They managed to turn a completely average movie into a talking point and convinced vast numbers of people that Captain Marvel is important. It’s not, it’s a slightly better than average addition to a (IMO) tiresome franchise.

I agree, there's no doubt the "controversy" is self-propelled to generate headlines. All this talk about the "trolls" and critics just keeps the movie in the press. The reality is -- it's the 7th biggest opener in a now 21-film series, opening against no other competition at a completely dead box-office. Is it really impressive? No. Expected, yes.

Disney is genius in how these Marvel things are all marketed, because what they've come up with in this franchise is the ultimate TV series. Like I've written before, these films are less independent cinematic entities than they are interlocking episodes of a TV show. Want to see the next episode? Buy a ticket in April, August, November...I was so into it for a while but I'm outside the demographic and just don't have any interest. None of these things gives me any kind of cinematic experience I haven't had already, and I feel I'm not missing anything by not going. (That said I might go to Avengers because it's an excuse to get out of the house, see my cousin and have dinner and a few brews first...lol)

[Johnmgm]

I was looking at the list of MCU films and in my opinion there is one really good movie, one crummy movie and the rest are time wasters on a sliding scale of banality.

I’m not a big fan of Christopher Nolan’s Batman series, but none of the MCU is in the same league as those three films. Artistically speaking (once again IMO), MCU goes for doubles, or base hits and meets those expectations. DC has gone for home runs and struck out most of the time, but their films are probably going to be more interesting for future movie buffs/geeks/historians/lovers.

What I really think/hope, is that future generations will look back on this period of movie history and ask, What were they thinking?

[AndyDursin]

I agree with all of those sentiments.

I think a real problem for the future of cinema is this: once Disney has run through the super-hero genre, and/or the young audience burns out from it, and once they remake every single animated movie of theirs -- what's going to be left? Viewers who suddenly WANT something more adult -- the viewer that Netflix and Amazon have courted, and which Apple is about to -- aren't going to find it in theaters. And the cinema is going to struggle to get that audience back. As I posted in the Oscars thread, look at the dwindling number of people who have gone to see the nominated fields of the last 10-15 years -- the winners especially. It's a fraction of what Best Picture winners once grossed.

This isn't like 50 years ago when TV came on the scene and people thought the future of the movies was doomed...TV still couldn't replicate the "cinematic experience." That isn't the case today. Audiences have grown accustomed to HDTVs and good quality and the convenience of staying in. Asking them to go back, and trying to lure them back with the kind of "mature" programming that mostly eludes them today because of all the superheroes, recycled brands and remakes -- that's going to be a tough sell.

At times I almost think we're going to end up one day with vacant large multiplexes much like most of our retail malls. Sure, there will still be some theaters -- but I can see them being 3 or 4 really LARGE screens with fewer movies playing on them. The future of the cinema is great for Disney right now, but the world of super-heroes and sequels isn't a long-term recipe for success for the industry. The writing is on the wall.

I was looking at the list of MCU films and in my opinion there is one really good movie, one crummy movie and the rest are time wasters on a sliding scale of banality.

I’m not a big fan of Christopher Nolan’s Batman series, but none of the MCU is in the same league as those three films. Artistically speaking (once again IMO), MCU goes for doubles, or base hits and meets those expectations. DC has gone for home runs and struck out most of the time, but their films are probably going to be more interesting for future movie buffs/geeks/historians/lovers.

I think the key is that the DC and the non-Disney Marvel movies usually have more personality. Disney plays it very safe and the formula is very strong, but their films feel very "samey" -- increasingly so as the years have gone on. They've become increasingly good at producing mediocrity, which a lot of the recent MCU films have been.

The Fox X-MEN films have run hot and cold but when they were good, they were very good. Disney never would have made DEADPOOL, it would've been a lousy Netflix show under their auspices (I'm sure they will let Ryan Reynolds make a few more sequels because of the $$ involved, but you wonder how tighter the reigns will be now).

The Nolan Batmans, the Raimi Spider-Mans, the Donner Superman/Lester II -- all of them I rank at the top of the genre, and I don't think Marvel has made anything on their level. (Really the only Marvel movies with a unique point of view are the GUARDIANS films, because the material is so offbeat and they let Gunn do his thing with little interference it seems).

The genre though is a "be careful what you wish for" situation for me. Growing up I wanted more comic book movies -- we never got anything but the Reeve films and loads of disappointments. Now, there's another comic book movie coming every other month. I'll see this Avengers movie but who the hell are these 40 or 50 year old fanboys sitting on pins and needles worrying about what's going to happen? The last two Avengers movies BORED ME TO TEARS. 2.5 hours of tedium in each one, with boring climaxes (a hallmark of the MCU films) and too many cute quips amongst a bloated ensemble where a roadmap was seemingly employed to make sure every one of them had "something to do".

Not that DC has always had its ship in order but they've tried to be at least a little bit more adult and ambitious. I also think they've finally learned their lesson. Snyder was the wrong guy to modernize the characters, his Superman take in general was all wrong, and then it hit a breaking point with JUSTICE LEAGUE and they finally showed him the door. But WONDER WOMAN was fun, and AQUAMAN was also very entertaining -- both of them allowing their directors to put some kind of stamp on them.

The news they are abandoning the "connected universe" concept Marvel shoves down our throats is welcome. They can just make movies, and hopefully better ones now that it looks like they've got their act together now. Watching what James Wan did with AQUAMAN really made me wish he had produced Superman -- maybe they'll give him a crack at it down the line.

[Johnmgm]

Interestingly (or hypocritically) enough, after all of my pissing and moaning, the one movie I’m really looking forward to seeing is Shazam! The trailer starts in a generic comic book manner, but pulls a fast one and suddenly looks like it could be a charming comedy. We shall see, but at least it looks different. The vast majority of trailers today look like the parody Taco Bell cheese fry ad they show before the movies, and about as appetizing,

[AndyDursin]

Shazam looks funny. And also unlike anything Marvel has made, so I am hopeful also. Another instance of the DC movies at least having a uniqueness...it's not a lead in to Wonder Woman 1984 next year.

[AndyDursin]

Screenrant article claims the soundtrack to this movie was "cleaned up" (to some extent) by Michael GIacchino.

https://www.screengeek.net/2019/04/08/c ... l-trouble/

If you're looking for laughs, check out the FSM board members going positively APOPLECTIC over the mere suggestion that Pinar Toprak could have possibly had some of her music replaced.

FAKE NEWS!
BULLSHIT!
THEY'RE TRYING TO DISCREDIT THE FILM!
ANONYMOUS SOURCES!

[Edmund Kattak]

Even Giacchino admitted he did "some work" on CM, but he was careful not to reveal as to what extent so as to NOT derail the general narrative. It's not hard to see what went on. I listened to the CM album. It's like every post-Paramount Marvel movie that features a newby composer - unremarkable and unmemorable, but serviceable.

That part in his twitter post about being part of the "Marvel family" sounds very PR'ish and PC, so it was a tipoff to me that he had more to do with it than he leads on.

[Paul MacLean]

Toprak is a rookie, and probably not up to the rigors of scoring this type of picture, where you have to appease micromanaging filmmakers who insist on a formulaic approach (and who insist on endless re-writes).

Moreover, Toprak's authorship of the score is a matter of pride for Marvel -- "Look! We hired a woman to score Captain Marvel, because we're so progressive!" If her score was unsatisfactory, and another composer -- a man -- had to be called upon to fix things up, it is not something the studio would want made public.

[AndyDursin]

Posted by one of the FSM board members:

Ahahahahaha an Academy Award winning composer is going to ghostwrite music for an up-and-comer with no credit whatsoever? Only an idiot who thinks all composers are stylistically interchangeable would think Giacchino wrote a single note of this

Clearly, the joke's on them, because they don't seem to understand a) this is a typically anonymous Marvel corporate product that's got billions riding on it and b) Giacchino (or really anyone) would gladly take such an assignment if he was very likely getting paid as much to "clean it up" as he would to score it from scratch.

Obviously, I didn't hear the score and it doesn't matter to me who scored it -- I haven't bought so much as 1 of the Marvel soundtracks, and don't care to listen to any of them outside the film -- but the possibility that they would want to bring in their "main man" to work with someone with NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER scoring this kind of movie is purely rational. And we all know why she got the job in the first place.

And it's not even the micromanaging filmmakers -- it's the studio. MarvelDisney is fully in charge of their films, it doesn't matter who's scoring it or directing it at this point.

Giacchino's carefully worded statement, as Ed wrote, is PR speak for "yes I did work on it", and the fact he admitted it at all means there's very likely a lot of truth in the news story IMO.