INDIANA JONES & THE DIAL OF DESTINY To Rival "John Carter" As Disney's Biggest Bomb

[AndyDursin]

After the 3 Star Wars scores he wrote and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, I can't imagine paying for another album I won't want to listen to.

[AndyDursin]

Remarkable that, at this surprise appearance Williams made at a screening the other night, he apparently played 3 pieces....starting with Mutts Theme from Crystal Skull. Umm....ok?!

Followed it with Helena's Theme from this movie and the Raiders March...but I think it goes hand in hand with the talk this sequel doesn't have a wealth of strong thematic material packed into it. More a pastiche of older themes and mickey mouse action cues.

[Monterey Jack]

Watching the first three Indy movies over the last few weeks reminded me of how impeccable Williams used to be in creating action cues that acted almost as complete concert pieces, and that were perfectly molded to the individual scenes they were accompanying. You couldn't lift the "Basket Chase" cue from Raiders and plop it down during the "Desert Chase" scene without it totally clashing with the tone and style of that scene. But too much of his adventure-movie scoring since War Of The Worlds doesn't really adhere to the individual moments of the films. You could take any action cue from Crystal Skull or The Adventures Of Tintin or The Force Awakens, throw it behind any other scene in the film, and it would kind of sound the same. The last "summer movie" score where WIlliams crafted individual pieces that really sounded unique to the individual scenes was probably Minority Report. It's the biggest problem with movie scoring in general over the last two decades...every action cue is just set in the same basic key or tempo, so it just becomes this wash of sound, with generic "happy" or "sad" or "exciting" flourishes. Yeah, it's still identifiably Williams in these post-90s scores, but hearing him do the recent indy or Star Wars projects was kind of like hearing John Barry doing James Bond by the 80s, or Goldsmith's "Next Gen" Star Trek scores in the 90s and early 00s...obviously preferable to anyone else doing it, but lacking that "spark" that fuelled their first takes on the franchises, replaced by professional competence.

[AndyDursin]

You could take any action cue from Crystal Skull or The Adventures Of Tintin or The Force Awakens, throw it behind any other scene in the film, and it would kind of sound the same.

Indeed, his action music has become a lot more frantic and less developed, which is why I hoped he'd finish off his career scoring character dramas, affording him more of an opportunity to make a meaningful contribution to a movie, but that's just not in the cards with the studio system today. I think it mostly goes hand in hand with how the films have been edited as well over time, there's less dialogue than there once was, there are more cuts, faster edits, etc.

Honestly I don't bother listening to Crystal Skull or any of his Disney Star Wars scores. There might be a few "good cues" but I prefer listening to his superior works and most of his scores dating from roughly Harry Potter on backwards.

Yeah, it's still identifiably Williams in these post-90s scores, but hearing him do the recent indy or Star Wars projects was kind of like hearing John Barry doing James Bond by the 80s, or Goldsmith's "Next Gen" Star Trek scores in the 90s and early 00s...obviously preferable to anyone else doing it, but lacking that "spark" that fuelled their first takes on the franchises, replaced by professional competence.

I get the comparison, though I'd much rather hear THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS over THE LAST JEDI myself.

John Williams' legacy will be the amount of brilliant scores he wrote across a wide variety of genres, and the quality of those scores. To be blunt I don't think he's ever scored anything as thankless in his career as these late-era Disney revivals. These give him nothing artistic to build upon in a creative sense and just keep pressing the same buttons -- but in a modern forum with less of a place for a meaningful musical contribution.

Williams always brought a purpose to sequels he scored -- except these. It'd be one thing if he were doing it because it was Spielberg, but I'm surprised he kept coming back to score these movies even though the creative artists he was associated with -- Lucas, Spielberg, etc. -- had departed. I don't begrudge him for wanting to puff up his grandkids' college tuitions and keep working, but IMO they've done nothing at all for his body of work...possibly diminished it just a little because he really never "cashed the check" before these pictures. Even when he could've "phoned it in" with JAWS 2 or HOME ALONE 2 etc. he instead wrote brilliant all-new music for them. But there's a lot more recycling going on with, say, RISE OF THE SKYWALKER than there is the kind of bold -- and also unique -- scoring he did in the prequels, and it's not close.

And again, I am not saying it's that he's not trying and shouldn't be working, but the argument "at least he's still around to score these" -- I hear it, but honestly, these films aren't worth his time. I'd be lying if I didn't feel Ford and Williams had followed Lucas and Spielberg in just saying "no" to the whole lot and instead raised up the films they already made -- instead of "legitimizing" these limp wannabes with their respective involvements they are not deserving of.

[Monterey Jack]

Getting Williams for these Disney remakes -- uhhhhhhhh, "sequels" -- is like dragging the ancient original actors out of mothballs and propping them against the nearest wall so they don't fall down. It's nothing more than a token gesture that they're "staying true to the source!", even as they jam socio-political rhetoric into the movies and add younger characters who point out how broken down and out-of-step with the times those characters are in the happy, shiny, inclusive world we now live in!

[AndyDursin]

Finally confirmation this ending was changed with Ford saying as much and a "prominent star" of a previous movie brought in (guess who?!?! Lol, Ford spoiled it already) for the reshoot.

Yet Mangold still says the movie always ended this way

[Monterey Jack]

Indiana Jones & The Dialed-Down Expectations.

[AndyDursin]

Lack of themes now a recurring theme.

John Williams also returns to score the adventure, but he’s short on memorable themes, failing to give the viewing experience soaring orchestral support.

https://www.blu-ray.com/Indiana-Jones-a ... 52/#Review

[Edmund Kattak]

Lack of themes now a recurring theme.

John Williams also returns to score the adventure, but he’s short on memorable themes, failing to give the viewing experience soaring orchestral support.

https://www.blu-ray.com/Indiana-Jones-a ... 52/#Review

In the one new clip I see floating around, the music sounds inspired by "Spyders' from MINORITY REPORT!

[Paul MacLean]

Here's a featurette on the score.

It's hard to tell from these little snippets, but to me, it sounds promising...

[AndyDursin]

I get the feeling the "Fleabag Theme" is the only new real thematic component in this score, and the rest is going to be a lot of Disney-fied "mickey mousing" like the recent Star Wars scores.

Just read some JWFan member compare the score's frantic "movement" with TINTIN and THE LOST WORLD which are two of my least favorite genre scores of his too.

Oh well maybe I will be surprised!

[mkaroly]

I am a Lifer when it comes to Williams...lol...I will find some way to like it!

Agreed Andy - TINTIN and TLW are a couple of my least favorite scores of his as well.

[Edmund Kattak]

Here's the clip I was referring to:

[John Johnson]

We will know soon enough. The download is supposed to be available on July 30th, and the CD is out on August 9th

https://www.disneymusicemporium.com/pro ... of-destiny

[AndyDursin]

Here's the clip I was referring to:

That does sound like MINORITY REPORT!

I can feel it, it's going to be what I feared -- just a lot of "fragments". And little thematic tissue connecting it.