DUNE 2: SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN THIS TIME - November 3rd

[AndyDursin]

I think the issue here is Villeneuve himself and how it applies to his work. To be specific, his movies lack warmth. They lack a human scale. They nearly always lack any semblance of humor, so hearing there's even a single character in the new DUNE that generates an ounce of humor is nearly a shocker. The guy is hung up on spectacle and "vision" and hearing that he holds visuals over dialogue -- and many times an emotional connection -- is not surprising to me. It says a lot about the coldness of his work.

Spielberg's visuals are tremendous -- but man, it's a good thing there was dialogue that worked in E.T. and CLOSE ENCOUNTERS in addition to the "dialogue of cinema" too. It's a mix Villeneuve hasn't ever found.

[Paul MacLean]

Tarantino is a SUPERB visualist.

That may well be true. I wasn’t saying he isn’t.

What I am getting at is that he should concentrate more on the visual storytelling, instead of talking our ear off with boring, interminable dialog scenes which do nothing to advance the narrative.

[AndyDursin]

That's always been my take with the Q man. Too many of his movies are just people endlessly talking. Inglorious Bastards was one of the worst of that lot. Mix in a set piece or two why is that so horrendous.

Somehow there's a middle ground to be found between these extremes.

[AndyDursin]

[Paul MacLean]

Zimmer has become a parody of himself.

And I see he's dragged out that electric cellist again, who of course got where she is on musical talent -- it had nothing to do with her looks or provocative selfies...

[AndyDursin]

that's almost as good as the Driving Miss Daisy concert video. Close...

[mkaroly]

Long and short of it, I mostly liked Dune Part Two (there will be a Part Three which will be his take on Dune: Messiah). Spoilers ahead:

First and foremost, Hans Zimmer is the s**ttiest so-called "composer" on the face of this planet. His noise sounds like an elephant farting in an echo chamber. It is horrendous...yet I guess I am dumb and ignorant of what film music can be because this imposter keeps getting hired for big budget projects. Blaring a chord as loud as you can during a scene does not create drama...it creates headaches and PTSD. He is an absolute joke - not a musician or a composer in my book.

I liked the scope and spectacle of DV's Dune - in Part Two I especially liked that they spent so much time in Fremen culture and in their world on Dune. Many of the elements of the book were there...it was a pipe dream to think that they would faithfully adapt the material all the way through as they did not. Being someone who likes a film adaptation that is super faithful to the source material (unlike some critic on IGN who I couldn't disagree with more), I am disappointed in what was left out...though most of what was left out was not really necessary for the focus of DV's efforts. So while I wish it was in there, I understand why it wasn't (and at least they tried workarounds to allude to the excised material here and there, whether it was a line of dialogue or something else). I did not think the battle scenes were LOTR-ish - the Fremen army entrance into the battle zone on worms was super cool.

What I was disappointed in was the way DV changed the dynamic of the relationship between Paul and Chani. In the book Chani understands Paul's choices and supports him; even at the end, although she is somewhat hurt by Paul's choice to take Princess Irulan's hand in marriage (at least I read it that way), Paul assures her that his marriage to Irulan is in name only and that she will never share his bed. The love story of Paul and Chani is central to the arc of the entire story - their descendants are the focus of the entire Dune universe as written by Frank Herbert (and the concluding books by Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert based on Frank's notes). In the movie, Chani is not on board with Paul's choices - she at first supports him but then speaks out against him and the 'propaganda' in the latter part of the film, when she leaves him to his choices to return the the desert. Yes, Paul does say at one point that Chani will come around because he has foreseen it (after he survives the Water of Life ritual), but I wish the integrity of their relationship as described in the book remained in the film. The romantic aspects of the story were muted in the film in its final act. A friend of mine told me she felt DV made that choice because he wanted to emphasize that Paul is not a hero, which is a good point. To her it made Chani's character more interesting.

Overall I think DV respected the source material on the whole, and despite the complaints I stated I am satisfied with the movie as a whole.

[AndyDursin]

Thank you Michael for the astute review! I am checking it out tonight during "Bargain Tuesday" so I'm ready to give it an unbiased spin.

[mkaroly]

Thank you Michael for the astute review! I am checking it out tonight during "Bargain Tuesday" so I'm ready to give it an unbiased spin.

I should warn you Andy that colors are very muted in the film (and the stuff on Geidi Prime is basically in black and white color). I think maybe you (or someone) was critical of the film's color palate in the first film. DV did not change his approach there for the second part; I did not mention it in my thoughts above as I was cool with it, but just a head's up on that!

[AndyDursin]

I've seen the clips of the essentially B&W sequences...whatever maybe it works! I'm more interested in if I'm going to fall asleep somewhere between 7:30 and 11 tonight.

[AndyDursin]

That's one of the worst scores I've ever heard. Period.

[mkaroly]

That's one of the worst scores I've ever heard. Period.

I am completely with you on that...I do not understand why people think that qualifies as music. It is noise....loud noise (important moment in slow-motion...time to insert blaring chord and make sure the film editors turn it up full volume for emphasis). Hans Zimmer is an imposter and the worst thing to happen to film scoring in the history of the genre. Lol...

[Monterey Jack]

That's one of the worst scores I've ever heard. Period.

I saw Dune 2: How YOU Dune? yesterday, and watched the first Kung Fu Panda at home later that night, and lemme tell ya, "Oogway Ascends" has more melody and emotion in it than Zimmer managed to evoke in all 5-1/2 hours of Dune music he's written to date.

[AndyDursin]

We often poke fun and may be sarcastic about Zimmer, but the DUNE 2 score is a new kind of wretched, even for him. It adds NOTHING to the film (which I also saw last night). Not a single thing. It does DETRACT from it. This loud, obnoxious, grating, subwoofer-rattling "wall of sound" doesn't add a single emotion other than making you feel THISSCENEISSOIMPORTANTNOREALLYITISTHISTIME throughout, making you feel like EVERY moment is a big one. It's an issue when the movie, while so much more interesting than its predecessor, still feels like it's on a flatline emotionally. Some of that is because of the score, some of that is just because it's how Villeneuve directs. Few scenes have any more or less "power" than others, especially after the first hour.

Michael's point on the Chani-Paul relationship is so on target. You don't need to read the book to understand the dynamic in their relationship isn't balanced. They love each other for a couple of minutes but are at one another the rest of it. I don't want to blame Zendaya entirely but I got awfully tired of her ticked-off expression in nearly every scene of this film (so did my friend so I saw the movie with). Again, some of that is direction and writing -- Villeneuve and Jon Spaiths' script doesn't convey, other than basic terms, the feelings the couple has for one another. And Chani's role seems too combative, too argumentative, to the degree she's not very likeable. Either that or it's Zendaya's performance (Paul choosing between her or Florence Pugh is not nearly as difficult as the film wants you to believe!).

The whole conversation as to whether Paul is a hero, whether he's a Messiah or a false prophet is obviously the entire point of Frank Herbert's book -- but I didn't feel it was satisfyingly conveyed in this film, especially from an emotional angle. You need more than a group of conversations and lines of dialogue that constantly shift as the movie progresses. Is he or isn't he? Why should I care? I lost count at some point where we were at. I am certain the book does a far better and nuanced job of capturing these sentiments especially from an internal point of view.

Despite all of this, the movie is much more interesting than the second film, no doubt. The film doesn't feel as "barren", the action scenes are robust. The casting is mostly interesting though Christopher Walken is miscast as the Emperor. I nearly laughed outloud when he offers "Maud'd'ib" after Paul shows up for his brawl with the Harkkonen nephew late in the game.

It's also kind of funny Lynch's movie -- awkward as it can be -- managed to cover most of this material inside of 150 minutes whereas Villeneuve goes over 5 hours and dramatically doesn't advance the material that much more. Yet I was still entertained and would be up for a 3rd movie if it happens.

[Monterey Jack]

We often poke fun and may be sarcastic about Zimmer, but the DUNE 2 score is a new kind of wretched, even for him. It adds NOTHING to the film (which I also saw last night). Not a single thing. It does DETRACT from it. This loud, obnoxious, grating, subwoofer-rattling "wall of sound" doesn't add a single emotion other than making you feel THISSCENEISSOIMPORTANTNOREALLYITISTHISTIME throughout, making you feel like EVERY moment is a big one. It's an issue when the movie, while so much more interesting than its predecessor, still feels like it's on a flatline emotionally.

I remember, back in the FSM print days, Lukas trashing Zimmer's Crimson Tide score with the phrase, "Zimmer creates tension through bluntness, not intricacy", and that sums up his approach to film music perfectly. He BLUDGEONS the listener with this grating Wall O' Sound approach, and any subtle nuances in the movie's visual storytelling or acting tics get no enhancement whatsoever. Think of those moments in good movies of the past, where an emotional crescendo was pushed over the top by the music being cued in at just the right moment, like the "orgasm" after skillful foreplay, as it were. The great film composers like Williams, Horner, Goldsmith and the like knew how to hold back, how to use counterpoint, melody, unique instrumentation, and when to SHUT THE HELL UP and allow certain scenes to play out with just dialogue and sound effects. Zimmer just plays every moment in the Dune movies like it's THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER, and it drains those moments of whatever emotional or dramatic punch they're supposed to have, because they're all treated that way. It's the difference between Williams' Superman: The Movie and Zimmer's Man Of Steel, the former having at least a half-dozen distinct character themes and melodies, and the latter sounding like your stomach when you have to put off lunch.