I never thought that I would ever say that. It’s been 25 years since THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK shot onto the big screen. This was, perhaps, one of the most eagerly-awaited sequels of all time. I remember seeing it twice. The second time, my parents chose to see AIRPLANE, which also turns 25 this year. Holy Krakatoa! Twenty-Five years ago. I was 13 and about to win my first (and last) little league championship.
In any event, I was thinking about this movie – my favorite and arguably the best in the Star Wars saga. I thought about what made it so good. And I thank my lucky stars that Irvin Kershner, Leigh Brackett, and Lawrence Kasdan were involved. I think this was Kershner’s best. Certainly, it was the most different looking film for him. I don’t think any of the previous films he directed (FLIM-FLAM MAN, S*P*Y*S*, EYES OF LAURA MARS) were as visually stunning and tightly crafted.
Needless to say, John Williams score for EMPIRE was light years better than STAR WARS. It was well polished and better orchestrated and he seemed to have a virtual ton of ideas. The performance by the London Symphony Orchestra is perhaps the most dynamic and powerful that I've ever eard from them. The music flowed so perfectly that one would think that this was composed as one massive symphony.
While we are on the subject of “25 Years Later,” next year is the 25th anniversary of RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK!
Now I am feeling old.
THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK - 25 Years Later
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Edmund Kattak
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THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK - 25 Years Later
Indeed,
Ed
Ed
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AndyDursin
- Posts: 34278
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:45 pm
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I like all of Williams' original Trilogy scores, though I have a fondness for STAR WARS and particularly EMPIRE as well. (BTW, what is it about Williams that his "second installment" scores are just so damn good? TEMPLE OF DOOM is an awesome work, and JAWS 2 is one of my all-time favorites, both containing all new thematic material, and the latter surpassing its predecessor in terms of its depth and orchestral color).
I do have some memories of seeing EMPIRE at the Showcase Seekonk (in nearby Massachusetts, just a few minutes from Providence) the day it came out. Though I wasn't quite 6 years old, I do remember my grandmother sitting on the floor with some friendly students from Brown, waiting for at least an hour for the next show to start (I believe we killed some time prior to that at Burger King and Ann & Hope, a nearby department store). My mom, our next door neighbor and her son (one of my friends) were also there, and I remember getting a few of those so-cool Burger King "Empire" collector's glasses before we saw the film!
Then, once the lights faded and the "Star Wars" logo came on screen, the entire crowd stood up and CHEERED wildly, clapping and applauding, for at least a solid minute. Needless to say, it was great stuff!
By the way, does anyone have Varese's old EMPIRE re-recording on CD by Charles Gerhardt and the National Philharmonic? Though nothing can top Williams' original recordings, the Gerhardt version is actually quite excellent, and was for a while superior to the single-disc LP and CD that Polygram released....the sound quality is fantastic on that version as well.
I do have some memories of seeing EMPIRE at the Showcase Seekonk (in nearby Massachusetts, just a few minutes from Providence) the day it came out. Though I wasn't quite 6 years old, I do remember my grandmother sitting on the floor with some friendly students from Brown, waiting for at least an hour for the next show to start (I believe we killed some time prior to that at Burger King and Ann & Hope, a nearby department store). My mom, our next door neighbor and her son (one of my friends) were also there, and I remember getting a few of those so-cool Burger King "Empire" collector's glasses before we saw the film!
Then, once the lights faded and the "Star Wars" logo came on screen, the entire crowd stood up and CHEERED wildly, clapping and applauding, for at least a solid minute. Needless to say, it was great stuff!
By the way, does anyone have Varese's old EMPIRE re-recording on CD by Charles Gerhardt and the National Philharmonic? Though nothing can top Williams' original recordings, the Gerhardt version is actually quite excellent, and was for a while superior to the single-disc LP and CD that Polygram released....the sound quality is fantastic on that version as well.
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Edmund Kattak
- Posts: 1699
- Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:08 pm
- Location: Northern New Jersey
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Andy,
I appreciate reading about your experience. It's good that you mentioned the audience "cheering" because the same happened at both of the showings that I went to. There was an excitement level and energy that I don't see anymore. I don't remember the audience cheering that enthusiastically at either of the first STAR WAR PREQUEL movies. There were a couple of claps, but not that much energy in the room. Mostly, punky Generation Y kids coming to a midnight showing just because it meant that they can stay up past midnight.
Nevertheless, I still have a couple of those BURGER KING glasses on my shelf. I will post some pictures (and other goodies) when I can.
And Yes, I have the Varese Gerhardt EMPIRE recording. First I bought it on LP, then on CD when it became available. That CD stands as one of the best re-recordings of STAR WARS music. Namely, it is perhaps the only release that has the CONCERT version of HAN AND THE PRINCESS. This was, by far, one of Williams best Love Themes that he has ever written. I like its full development on the Varese release. Also, there were quite a bit of variations that Gerhardt chose to use (Like starting off THE IMPERIAL MARCH with the snippet from the CARBON FREEZE scene).
It is really amazing that EMPIRE, to me, does not seem dated. The production design and costumes are still way ahead of its time.
I appreciate reading about your experience. It's good that you mentioned the audience "cheering" because the same happened at both of the showings that I went to. There was an excitement level and energy that I don't see anymore. I don't remember the audience cheering that enthusiastically at either of the first STAR WAR PREQUEL movies. There were a couple of claps, but not that much energy in the room. Mostly, punky Generation Y kids coming to a midnight showing just because it meant that they can stay up past midnight.
Nevertheless, I still have a couple of those BURGER KING glasses on my shelf. I will post some pictures (and other goodies) when I can.
And Yes, I have the Varese Gerhardt EMPIRE recording. First I bought it on LP, then on CD when it became available. That CD stands as one of the best re-recordings of STAR WARS music. Namely, it is perhaps the only release that has the CONCERT version of HAN AND THE PRINCESS. This was, by far, one of Williams best Love Themes that he has ever written. I like its full development on the Varese release. Also, there were quite a bit of variations that Gerhardt chose to use (Like starting off THE IMPERIAL MARCH with the snippet from the CARBON FREEZE scene).
It is really amazing that EMPIRE, to me, does not seem dated. The production design and costumes are still way ahead of its time.
Indeed,
Ed
Ed
I think it's because Star Wars/Empire, Alien, and many of the other late seventies/early eighties sci-fis went for that "truck drivers in space" look rather than trying to look futuristic. They all have props, costumes and everything that seem realistically functional instead of just things that look cool. And the end result is everything looks even better than if they had purely gone for style over substance (with respect to the visual design). The X-Wings going into attack formation in the first Star Wars is a great example. It looks cool because it's all shot and handled in a way that makes sense realistically, same with all of the Hoth related content in Empire.
I still think this is one of the best sci-fi movies of all time and arguably one of the best scores of all time still.
I watch and listen to something like this and I wonder: "How come we don't have movies like this or scores like these any longer?" The same goes for something like "Raiders of the Lost Ark." We just do not see films or hear scores like that anymore, and I suspect we never will.
You compare and contrast something like Empire, which really shines on this new DVD set. It doesn't look like it's aged a day!
Contrast it with the cold CGI of the Star Wars prequels, and then contrast the quality of script, storytelling, and acting... and that's when you really get sick to your stomach. We won't even get in to the night and day difference in Williams' own contrast between his original Star Wars scores and the prequel scores.
We all can cite the great dialogue from the SW Trilogy off the top of our heads. There were so many great lines in those films. You can't do the same for the prequels. The only dialogue I can cite is that which makes me want to hurt someone, like the so-called profession of love between "Ani" and Amidala in part two.
I need go no further than that scene to prove that George Lucas is a hack who can't write his way out of a paper bag. No actor could have salvaged trashy lines like those, but it's made that much worse by having someone who can't act his way out of a paper bag like Hayden Christiansen. It's irretreivable.
At least on Star Wars in 1977, Lucas was young, hungry, had something to prove, had fire in his belly, and had the studio breathing down his neck.
And what made Empire so great was the checks and balances of other talent behind the camera besides Lucas, not the least of which were an amazing director in Irvin Kershner and some other writers. like Lawrence Kasdan.
The studio should have insisted on the involvement of people like these again on the prequel films. I wish they had!
Instead, on the SW prequels, Lucas was given a blank check and surrounded by nothing but "yes men." The results are painfully clear for all to see, even down to John Williams's airmaled-in prequel scores.
If that obvious decline and stark contrast between then and now doesn't make you go
, nothing will.
To me, the differences couldn't be more stark and dismaying, across the boards.
I don't even have the excuse of complaining about someone besides Williams scoring these SW prequels. HE'S turned in that medicority (for him) himself!
Only Goldsmith could make chicken salad out of chickenshit.
His career was practically built on making amazing scores for crappy films. No one else could do it.
Williams never could do that, either.
Wiliams always has had to draw inspiration from what he sees on the screen or in the script. Williams also had the benfit of being able to score better films a lot more frequently than Goldsmith.
Having a 30+ year association with someone like a Steven Spielberg makes that happen.
I don't think it's any accident that Williams's music directly reflects how good the film itself is more often than not and how inspired he was by the source material.
I can tell, with most composers, except Goldsmith, whether or not the film they scored was good by the quality of music. Goldsmith was the freakish exception to that rule.
William's mediocre (for him) music on the SW prequels tells me everything I need to know about those films: He's not inspired by the source material much at all. And rightfully so.
His backhanded scoring effort is the closest you'll ever see or hear him condemning Lucas's effort, and it's a hell of a condemnation when you think about it.
Imagine John Williams. We all know him to be a very serious person and composer. High caliber, high pedigree, etc. etc.
Imagine the London Symphony Orchestra. Same deal.
Now imagine them together, in that scoring session, with that banal trash playing on the screen and that painful dialogue... Jar Jar Binks scenes in part one. Anakn's and Amidala's painful love scene dialogue in part 2. Ye gods, imagine trying to score that!
That kind of makes me laugh. What are you really supposed to do with that? Given all that, I think Williams has done as commendable an effort as can be done for what basically amounts to scoring B movies with A movie CGI all over the place!
But even a dull effort by Williams is better than most of what else has been put out in the past decade or so. Williams has some nice material going in these SW prequels. They aren't complete throw aways by a longshot, but they don't come anywhere close to their predecessors. (Score or films.)
If you compare those SW prequel scores to the SW Trilogy scores, same composer...it's going to either make you laugh or cry.
Here's a recent contrast for Williams:
That's why that first Harry Potter film sported such a better score than the SQ prequels: Williams was at least able to tap in to the "innocence of youth/underdog/wow/coming of age" themes. He's always done wonderfully with those themes in any film.
He was clearly more inspired by that material vs. the SW prequels.
Think about it... That first Harry Potter score sounds more like a "real" Star Wars score than those SW prequel scores do! That's sad! The second HP score also does, albeit to a lesser extent.
CGI has not come far enough to carry a movie at all. Again, witness the Star Wars prequels, just for easy reference. There are plenty of other films as well.
CGI has become a crutch used all too easily in film today. It's the same thing videogame fans, and especially console RPG fans, have seen for years as well. The reliance on CGI and pretty special effects used to pad out the time and try and cover up the fact that the game (or movie) is really just a polished turd. CGI has become the excuse, and tool, to cover up making trash.
CGI can certainly be used well, as an asset, to augment a product. There are plenty of examples of that around as well, like the LOTR:Trilogy, among many others. I like CGI just fine, when it isn't overused or used to cover up trash.
I, for one, still easily favor the use of models, as was done in the original Star Wars films, because it makes things look real, like you can touch it. You look at any of the ships in the SW prequels and it looks too slick, too fake, cartoonish. It's cold and lifeless. Night and day difference.
I watch and listen to something like this and I wonder: "How come we don't have movies like this or scores like these any longer?" The same goes for something like "Raiders of the Lost Ark." We just do not see films or hear scores like that anymore, and I suspect we never will.
You compare and contrast something like Empire, which really shines on this new DVD set. It doesn't look like it's aged a day!
Contrast it with the cold CGI of the Star Wars prequels, and then contrast the quality of script, storytelling, and acting... and that's when you really get sick to your stomach. We won't even get in to the night and day difference in Williams' own contrast between his original Star Wars scores and the prequel scores.
We all can cite the great dialogue from the SW Trilogy off the top of our heads. There were so many great lines in those films. You can't do the same for the prequels. The only dialogue I can cite is that which makes me want to hurt someone, like the so-called profession of love between "Ani" and Amidala in part two.
I need go no further than that scene to prove that George Lucas is a hack who can't write his way out of a paper bag. No actor could have salvaged trashy lines like those, but it's made that much worse by having someone who can't act his way out of a paper bag like Hayden Christiansen. It's irretreivable.
At least on Star Wars in 1977, Lucas was young, hungry, had something to prove, had fire in his belly, and had the studio breathing down his neck.
And what made Empire so great was the checks and balances of other talent behind the camera besides Lucas, not the least of which were an amazing director in Irvin Kershner and some other writers. like Lawrence Kasdan.
The studio should have insisted on the involvement of people like these again on the prequel films. I wish they had!
Instead, on the SW prequels, Lucas was given a blank check and surrounded by nothing but "yes men." The results are painfully clear for all to see, even down to John Williams's airmaled-in prequel scores.
If that obvious decline and stark contrast between then and now doesn't make you go
, nothing will. To me, the differences couldn't be more stark and dismaying, across the boards.
I don't even have the excuse of complaining about someone besides Williams scoring these SW prequels. HE'S turned in that medicority (for him) himself!
Only Goldsmith could make chicken salad out of chickenshit.
His career was practically built on making amazing scores for crappy films. No one else could do it.
Williams never could do that, either.
Wiliams always has had to draw inspiration from what he sees on the screen or in the script. Williams also had the benfit of being able to score better films a lot more frequently than Goldsmith.
Having a 30+ year association with someone like a Steven Spielberg makes that happen.
I don't think it's any accident that Williams's music directly reflects how good the film itself is more often than not and how inspired he was by the source material.
I can tell, with most composers, except Goldsmith, whether or not the film they scored was good by the quality of music. Goldsmith was the freakish exception to that rule.
William's mediocre (for him) music on the SW prequels tells me everything I need to know about those films: He's not inspired by the source material much at all. And rightfully so.
His backhanded scoring effort is the closest you'll ever see or hear him condemning Lucas's effort, and it's a hell of a condemnation when you think about it.
Imagine John Williams. We all know him to be a very serious person and composer. High caliber, high pedigree, etc. etc.
Imagine the London Symphony Orchestra. Same deal.
Now imagine them together, in that scoring session, with that banal trash playing on the screen and that painful dialogue... Jar Jar Binks scenes in part one. Anakn's and Amidala's painful love scene dialogue in part 2. Ye gods, imagine trying to score that!
That kind of makes me laugh. What are you really supposed to do with that? Given all that, I think Williams has done as commendable an effort as can be done for what basically amounts to scoring B movies with A movie CGI all over the place!
But even a dull effort by Williams is better than most of what else has been put out in the past decade or so. Williams has some nice material going in these SW prequels. They aren't complete throw aways by a longshot, but they don't come anywhere close to their predecessors. (Score or films.)
If you compare those SW prequel scores to the SW Trilogy scores, same composer...it's going to either make you laugh or cry.
Here's a recent contrast for Williams:
That's why that first Harry Potter film sported such a better score than the SQ prequels: Williams was at least able to tap in to the "innocence of youth/underdog/wow/coming of age" themes. He's always done wonderfully with those themes in any film.
He was clearly more inspired by that material vs. the SW prequels.
Think about it... That first Harry Potter score sounds more like a "real" Star Wars score than those SW prequel scores do! That's sad! The second HP score also does, albeit to a lesser extent.
CGI has not come far enough to carry a movie at all. Again, witness the Star Wars prequels, just for easy reference. There are plenty of other films as well.
CGI has become a crutch used all too easily in film today. It's the same thing videogame fans, and especially console RPG fans, have seen for years as well. The reliance on CGI and pretty special effects used to pad out the time and try and cover up the fact that the game (or movie) is really just a polished turd. CGI has become the excuse, and tool, to cover up making trash.
CGI can certainly be used well, as an asset, to augment a product. There are plenty of examples of that around as well, like the LOTR:Trilogy, among many others. I like CGI just fine, when it isn't overused or used to cover up trash.
I, for one, still easily favor the use of models, as was done in the original Star Wars films, because it makes things look real, like you can touch it. You look at any of the ships in the SW prequels and it looks too slick, too fake, cartoonish. It's cold and lifeless. Night and day difference.
I think it's the 30th anniversary of EMPIRE as well as Pac-Man...
I remember when this movie came out...I was so stoked after seeing SW and eagerly anticipating this movie. It exceeded my expectations, and even to this day I am still impressed by how fluid and engaging the movie is (to me). The revelation that Dath Vader was Luke's father was shocking, and nothing else in any of the other films in the series has come close to being as shocking as that revelation was...Iw as not expecting that. I ate up the score by John Williams, and it remains to this day my favorite score of all six movies.
For me, JEDI didn't quite live up to expectations (aside from the Darth/Luke storyline, which was the best thing about that movie for me). But, I can "complain" nicely about that when JEDI's 30th anniversary pops up. SW was awesome and I loved it, but EMPIRE will remain the large, shining jewel on the Star Wars crown.
I remember when this movie came out...I was so stoked after seeing SW and eagerly anticipating this movie. It exceeded my expectations, and even to this day I am still impressed by how fluid and engaging the movie is (to me). The revelation that Dath Vader was Luke's father was shocking, and nothing else in any of the other films in the series has come close to being as shocking as that revelation was...Iw as not expecting that. I ate up the score by John Williams, and it remains to this day my favorite score of all six movies.
For me, JEDI didn't quite live up to expectations (aside from the Darth/Luke storyline, which was the best thing about that movie for me). But, I can "complain" nicely about that when JEDI's 30th anniversary pops up. SW was awesome and I loved it, but EMPIRE will remain the large, shining jewel on the Star Wars crown.