Anyone else gotten their Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull CD? (Henceforth to be called "Indy 4" -- I'm not going to keep spelling out that title!)
I'm listing to it now. I have to say the performance of The Raiders March lacks the vibrance and visceral impact of the original Raiders. Still, it sounds better than the main title recording of Superman Returns!
As for the music itself, its great to be listening to a John Williams adventure score again at long last. It is especially nice to be able to hear things which are otherwise extinct in film scoring -- complex counterpoint, and resourceful, balanced orchestrations.
I do think that this is not as theme-oriented a score as Williams usually does. More than anything else this score reminds me of the The Lost World, in that it evokes tension and adrenal action and suspense, rather than going for the "leitmotiv" approach of recognizable themes (as in Star Wars).
Its a fine score, and one of the best of the past several years, although I admit I was hoping for more of a theme-based score. Of course I have not yet seen the film, but I'm sure Williams' is writing within the confines of the film's limitations rather than suffering from any lack of melodic inspiration of his own. Perhaps Spielberg asked Williams to go with the current vogue of scoring -- i.e. moods and textures rather than recognizable themes.
Crystal Skull CD
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AndyDursin
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I noticed the Kaplans and Jeff Bond said the score was mixed incredibly low to the point where it was almost unnoticeable in the movie.
Sigh. That's pretty much all I've got to say. The score on its own is better than anything I've heard this year, but it does not favorably compare with the other Indy scores and Paul is dead on about the lack of thematic content.
Sigh. That's pretty much all I've got to say. The score on its own is better than anything I've heard this year, but it does not favorably compare with the other Indy scores and Paul is dead on about the lack of thematic content.
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Monterey Jack
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AndyDursin
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Digipacks suck. The worst offender possibly of all-time was that "3-D foldout" design they used for THE LOST WORLD, which scratched my CD more times than I care to remember. Fortunately it's not a score I play very often.Monterey Jack wrote:I'm still pissed they packaged it in one of those HORRID cardboard digipaks.
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Monterey Jack
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Even from an "environmental" standpoint, they stink. The CD itself is still made of plastic that will eventually be rotting in a landfill somewhere. Plus, they never fit in my CD racks, and it's impossible to just photocopy the cover art and place it in a CD case, as it's too big, and the edges of the artwork has to be shaved off to fit.Eric W. wrote:I can't believe anyone even still uses these stupid things.Monterey Jack wrote:I'm still pissed they packaged it in one of those HORRID cardboard digipaks.
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Paul MacLean
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Eric W. wrote:I can't believe anyone even still uses these stupid things.Monterey Jack wrote:I'm still pissed they packaged it in one of those HORRID cardboard digipaks.
That, and, typically, they are not cheaper to produce, so the overall decision to use them is a real head scratcher. What are the odds that the re-released Indy scores still to come out from Concord, the company that did INDY 4, will also be digipaks? Now, If they could just serve it to me with a brown turd on top, then the insult would be complete.
- SH
Indeed. No redeeming qualities of any kind whatsoever.scorehead wrote:Eric W. wrote:I can't believe anyone even still uses these stupid things.Monterey Jack wrote:I'm still pissed they packaged it in one of those HORRID cardboard digipaks.
That, and, typically, they are not cheaper to produce, so the overall decision to use them is a real head scratcher. What are the odds that the re-released Indy scores still to come out from Concord, the company that did INDY 4, will also be digipaks? Now, If they could just serve it to me with a brown turd on top, then the insult would be complete.
- SH
I'll have to say that this score was a real letdown for me. Both in and away from the film. Now, let me open my mouth a bit more so that rocks can be thrown.
First off, I must agree with your assessment of the RAIDER'S MARCH. Unless they intended it to lack some luster, like an aging Indy himself, then it fails to have any real sense of energy behind it. I actually kept restarting the CD, thinking that something was off on my amp. Sadly, that wasn't the case. Moving into the rest of the score, almost immediately there seems to be very little offered in the way of any new material, or new themes that are developed, and major action moments make an easy decent into sounding more like a temp score copy than anything else. All previous films in the series had individually distinct themes and I would challenge anyone to compare the 3 previous scores and see any resemblances in the thematic development, beyond the RAIDERS MARCH. The one thing that is most apparent is that Williams' sound was intact without really repeating himself. Seriously, compare the new track, "THE SNAKE PIT" to INDY 1's "BASKET CHASE" or "JUNGLE CHASE" to "DESERT CHASE" and "THE BELLY OF THE STEEL BEAST." Maybe it's just me, but these cues sound more like someone imitating Williams than Williams having anything new to say. But, maybe that's the case in the first place. But having been part of the first audience to screen this film, I know that they, in fact, had used those previous Williams' cues as temp score. That they sound anywhere simular is not coincidence and they must have been influential to Williams writing here. Another thing, and going back to the performance of the RAIDERS MARCH, the majority of this score has the same sluggish pacing and lack of vibrancy. I can't believe this is the LSO. At least not the same LSO that I've come to love and expect so much from.
I know that I'm being a bit harsh, and even so, this score does offer up some fun moments and can be enjoyed as a stand alone experience when separated from the film. But like the film it's self, I think that all involved were on auto pilot and just painting by numbers. And how could they not be? They're all pretty much as aged as ol' Indy himself.
Now... : )
- SH
First off, I must agree with your assessment of the RAIDER'S MARCH. Unless they intended it to lack some luster, like an aging Indy himself, then it fails to have any real sense of energy behind it. I actually kept restarting the CD, thinking that something was off on my amp. Sadly, that wasn't the case. Moving into the rest of the score, almost immediately there seems to be very little offered in the way of any new material, or new themes that are developed, and major action moments make an easy decent into sounding more like a temp score copy than anything else. All previous films in the series had individually distinct themes and I would challenge anyone to compare the 3 previous scores and see any resemblances in the thematic development, beyond the RAIDERS MARCH. The one thing that is most apparent is that Williams' sound was intact without really repeating himself. Seriously, compare the new track, "THE SNAKE PIT" to INDY 1's "BASKET CHASE" or "JUNGLE CHASE" to "DESERT CHASE" and "THE BELLY OF THE STEEL BEAST." Maybe it's just me, but these cues sound more like someone imitating Williams than Williams having anything new to say. But, maybe that's the case in the first place. But having been part of the first audience to screen this film, I know that they, in fact, had used those previous Williams' cues as temp score. That they sound anywhere simular is not coincidence and they must have been influential to Williams writing here. Another thing, and going back to the performance of the RAIDERS MARCH, the majority of this score has the same sluggish pacing and lack of vibrancy. I can't believe this is the LSO. At least not the same LSO that I've come to love and expect so much from.
I know that I'm being a bit harsh, and even so, this score does offer up some fun moments and can be enjoyed as a stand alone experience when separated from the film. But like the film it's self, I think that all involved were on auto pilot and just painting by numbers. And how could they not be? They're all pretty much as aged as ol' Indy himself.
Now... : )
- SH
Last edited by scorehead on Fri May 23, 2008 6:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm looking forward to hearing it apart from the movie- at times it sounded like a Well of Souls extended queue in the movie (especially towards the end). I was a bit taken aback by what Williams did with the end title of the movie as well. I don't doubt that the Raider's March sounds "dry"...I thought the SW theme in the prequels lost a bit of its luster as the series progressed. The movie really had nothing new to say in it, so I can imagine that the score would be the same way.
And I agree- those Digipacks are useless and a stupid waste of time.
And I agree- those Digipacks are useless and a stupid waste of time.
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AndyDursin
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Nobody is throwing rocks at you Scorehead. In fact I agree basically with what you're feeling -- though the LSO didn't do this score, I don't believe. Like TEMPLE OF DOOM and LAST CRUSADE this was recorded in L.A., no?
As I wrote before, I think Williams has really "said it all" when it comes to this series. This isn't STAR WARS where he had new characters and planets and backdrops to play with -- the Indy movies are cut-and-dried action films, there's no real backstory or mythology involved there. You know what kind of movie it's going to be, what buttons it's going to push, ahead of time. They were created as Saturday matinee movies, they're popcorn films and having already brilliantly scored 3 of them, what more could he really have said?
Spielberg didn't bring enough to the table, it seems, with this movie. So it's one set piece after another without much introspection, making the music take on a secondary role because it's so one-dimensional. Some fans might've hated the SW prequels but at least the new settings and characters allowed Williams to write some strikingly different music without relying on the old themes a whole lot. That isn't the case here.
As I wrote before, I think Williams has really "said it all" when it comes to this series. This isn't STAR WARS where he had new characters and planets and backdrops to play with -- the Indy movies are cut-and-dried action films, there's no real backstory or mythology involved there. You know what kind of movie it's going to be, what buttons it's going to push, ahead of time. They were created as Saturday matinee movies, they're popcorn films and having already brilliantly scored 3 of them, what more could he really have said?
Spielberg didn't bring enough to the table, it seems, with this movie. So it's one set piece after another without much introspection, making the music take on a secondary role because it's so one-dimensional. Some fans might've hated the SW prequels but at least the new settings and characters allowed Williams to write some strikingly different music without relying on the old themes a whole lot. That isn't the case here.
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Paul MacLean
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Yeah, except for the Star Wars and Harry Potter scores, Williams has recorded nothing in London since Return of the Jedi. I heard a rumor that LSO principal trumpet Maurice Murphy was flown over for Temple of Doom's sessions, but I am not sure if that is true.AndyDursin wrote:Nobody is throwing rocks at you Scorehead. In fact I agree basically with what you're feeling -- though the LSO didn't do this score, I don't believe. Like TEMPLE OF DOOM and LAST CRUSADE this was recorded in L.A., no?
Another thing which is different about Crystal Skull is that it was miked differently. Sean Murphy (Crystal Skull's engineer) records using the "Decca Tree" -- a single stand with with three microphones mounted on it, for left, right and center information. He also puts a mike on each of the principal players in each section, to better pick-up any solos.
However Eric Tomlinson and Dan Wallin (and I believe Bruce Botnick as well) do not use the Decca tree. Instead they mike each section, which gives more of a close-up sound, and therefor better detail and far greater control over the final mix.
I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but I will say this- why do we need ANOTHER version of the Raider's March that isn't even in hte film until the end? You could put other stuff on the album- I daresay most film score fans have a copy of this particular rendition of the Indy/Marion theme, so why start the album off with it? Not happy about that.
The rest of the score sounds like a mix of stuff from all the other scores, so I agree with the "nothing new" thoughts that have been previously stated. Having listened to two-thirds of the album makes me actually want to listen to THE ACCIDENTAL TOURIST and THE TERMINAL to hear thematic John Williams!!
BTW- I am so happy to have an updated version of TAT on CD with extensive liner notes. That is one of my top five films of all time and that score is absolutely gorgeous. So thanks FSM. I never sold my original WB disc, so it's worthless now. Oh well. : ) Couldn't part with that score- it's too moving.
The rest of the score sounds like a mix of stuff from all the other scores, so I agree with the "nothing new" thoughts that have been previously stated. Having listened to two-thirds of the album makes me actually want to listen to THE ACCIDENTAL TOURIST and THE TERMINAL to hear thematic John Williams!!
BTW- I am so happy to have an updated version of TAT on CD with extensive liner notes. That is one of my top five films of all time and that score is absolutely gorgeous. So thanks FSM. I never sold my original WB disc, so it's worthless now. Oh well. : ) Couldn't part with that score- it's too moving.