rate the last movie you saw

[AndyDursin]

Just turned 40 TS.

It could be an age thing -- but I know if the music was written the way it was when we were growing up, at least they'd have that going for it to keep me engaged!

Without that component, I'm just becoming more and more bored by the lot of these films. There's nothing new outside of the advances in special effects. Even if STAR WARS was a pastiche of '30s serials, it was something people hadn't seen before...and we don't get that today. It's all safe, by the numbers formula, without any kind of personality in terms of direction, or music, or anything else.

I mean, I like the Marvel movies -- most of them. I haven't loved any of them, with the possible exception of SPIDER-MAN 2, though even there, it's not SUPERMAN. GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY, THE AVENGERS -- good. Neither one of them was great...but to be great, movies need to be made by artists with a specific vision. 99.9% of these films now are made by studio committees and focus groups.

I go back and watch films from the '80s and, wow, even the BAD ones have a vitality in terms of direction or music or cinematography that's absent today...there's something redeeming in them, making even the failed ventures more interesting than today's studio fare, which is, more often than not, just meant to be serviceable.

[jkholm]

Pretty much agree with the comments in the previous few posts. I do remember the FSM article that MJ mentioned, especially the discussions about pacing in terms of both the score and the storytelling. Something I liked about BIG HERO 6 was the pacing of the first act which took time to introduce the plot and characters before getting to the frantic action scenes. GODZILLA is another recent example of a movie that wasn't just one action scene after another (for good or bad).

I think it's the sameness of many of today's popcorn movies that is a huge problem. Many of them are entertaining but not necessarily memorable. I often forget movies I've seen only a few weeks prior.

[Paul MacLean]

I go back and watch films from the '80s and, wow, even the BAD ones have a vitality in terms of direction or music or cinematography that's absent today...there's something redeeming in them, making even the failed ventures more interesting than today's studio fare, which is, more often than not, just meant to be serviceable.

I watched the German Blu-ray of The NeverEnding Story a couple of weeks ago. Not a perfect film, but far and away more appealing and enchanting than anything we see today. The effects also hold-up well and actually look better than a lot of CGI work. And Klaus Doldinger's score is soaring and melodic -- as well as dramatically nuanced (again, unlike what he get nowadays).

[Paul MacLean]

As silly as this is...



It's a lot better scored (and has more heart) than this...

[Monterey Jack]

Definitely.

I just wonder...do today's kids think that melodic, theme-driven scores in "old movies" from our childhoods are "corny"? I think there's a myriad of reason why film music has changed for the worse over the last 20 years (the good "silver age" composers retiring/dying one by one, louder sound mixes, "composers" who get work just by getting Hans Zimmer a cup of coffee instead of actually having some genuine skill in writing out music on a piece of paper instead of improvising to film on a keyboard), but do you think today's youngsters would be put off by film music that sounds like music? I mean, unless it's a nostalgic property from our childhoods getting rehashed over and over (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, James Bond, whatever) where the character's theme has entered the pop-cultural zeitgeist to a degree that even modern-day studios have to retain them for "brand recognition", you just never hear this kind of lush orchestral scoring in youth-oriented sci-fi and fantasy films. The Harry Potter franchise is a notable example of how film music devolved over the course of a decade...in 2001, we got John Williams in full, melodic flower. In 2011, we only had a few, fleeting quotes of "Hedwig's Theme" in an otherwise melody-deprived drone (and Alexandre Desplat is certainly capable of better). I'll have to quiz my 16-year-old nephew about that sometime, and show him some older films with "real music" in them (already started him with Jaws last summer).

[AndyDursin]

I just wonder...do today's kids think that melodic, theme-driven scores in "old movies" from our childhoods are "corny"?

I don't think kids today give a damn about film music, how it functions, or if it's even there. 90% of movie scores are totally ignored by average adult film goers to begin with -- and it's been that way forever. Only when a score HAD a theme-driven score or a song that people liked has the average movie-goer ever paid attention to the music. Most of the time, unless you're a film music nerd, it's something nobody cares about. So I can't imagine a kid today is going to sit through STAR WARS and start going, "it's a theme! I HATE IT! I can't watch this!" They're just not going to care one way or another.

Even if they do -- so what? Do kids today, the ones who sit and listen to the utter crap that constitutes pop music in 2014, have greater taste than everyone else? And here's the other thing: if you don't show them what great music actually is, and how it can support a film, they're not going to be exposed to it either. They're only going to get the ZimmerJablonsky crap Hollywood keeps feeding us and expect to hear every film sounding like that.

But it's not kids that are making that call -- it's the guys in suits who sit in the corporate office who are determining the "edginess" of these films. These movies, especially the superhero films, are becoming darker, darker, edgier, darker -- yadda yadda yadda -- so the music is fitting right in. And it's also a function of two other things we've talked about before: the younger composers' collective lack of talent, and the corporate mindset that film music isn't supposed to be front and center. It's supposed to be a subservient component of the film, doing just what Hans wants it to do...which isn't much lol.

[sprocket]

Film music is at a low point just now but I'm optimistic that it will change in the future. All that needs to happens is one movie with a theme that is as iconic as EB's Magnificent Seven, JG's Patton trumpet theme, or JW's Jaws theme. Until the suits realize that they are losing money by not having a marketable theme, there won't be any interest in creating music with any personality.

What was the last marketable theme of any note? JW's Schindler's List? That was 1993. (Even if that is only enduringly popular on light classic radio stations, to this day, it's still bringing in residuals.)

In the sixties and seventies, it seems to me, there were a whole bunch of identifiable themes that permeated popular culture and made the composers, publishers and producers a bucket load of money. Until someone hits the jackpot again, we'll continue to hear the anonymous dreck we're hearing now in American mainstream films.

I don't mind - there are a lot of foreign films with great film music to listen to (especially the Spanish composers seem to know how to write). And, of course, all the great old scores to mine.

[Paul MacLean]

People like Bernstein, Williams, Schifrin, Goldsmith et al came onto the scene when studios still had music departments and the hiring was done by department heads who were musicians themselves -- and generally hired people with genuine talent. Sometimes, popular musicians (who could also recognize talent) helped jump-start the careers of film composers (as with Adam Faith and John Barry). Later, people like Basil Poledouris and Trevor Jones studied music and film in college, and made connections with other students who went on to have successful directing careers. But they couldn't have gotten into music school to make these connections in the first place without talent. James Horner's abilities were recognized by Jerry Goldsmith, who recommended him to filmmakers.

But these days, it seems to mostly be non-musicians (with no musical ear) who groom musical talent. If you're in a garage band and are drinking buddies with a director or star, you have a better chance of being a film composer than someone who has spent years studying composition. It's as ridiculous as hiring a friend to be the film's cinematographer based on his smartphone movies.

[AndyDursin]

That's a great point Paul. I agree with Sprocket that things tend to be cyclical but the problem is: Desplat sure as hell isn't Williams. Michael Giacchino couldn't carry Goldsmith's water. There isn't anyone promising in the current group of composers routinely working in Hollywood today.

[Jedbu]

In answer to Sprocket, the last marketable theme was Horner's from TITANIC, which is still the top-selling orchestral score to a film that I know of.

[Monterey Jack]

In answer to Sprocket, the last marketable theme was Horner's from TITANIC, which is still the top-selling orchestral score to a film that I know of.

And that was only due to the song.

[AndyDursin]

In answer to Sprocket, the last marketable theme was Horner's from TITANIC, which is still the top-selling orchestral score to a film that I know of.

And that was only due to the song.

But the song IS the theme of the film. It's not just a soundtrack that had an otherwise unaffiliated song in it that happened to sell copies.

The score had an enormous amount of appeal as well.

[sprocket]

In answer to Sprocket, the last marketable theme was Horner's from TITANIC, which is still the top-selling orchestral score to a film that I know of.

And that was only due to the song.

But the song IS the theme of the film. It's not just a soundtrack that had an otherwise unaffiliated song in it that happened to sell copies.

The score had an enormous amount of appeal as well.

Well, you have a point and maybe my Schindler's List example sort of confused the issue. I'm really thinking of a theme that is so pervasive that you can't escape it's connotations in popular culture, not that it is just a good (and successful) piece of music.

I keep remembering all those old comedy shows growing up. You'd have Patton's trumpets as shorthand for egomania (a musical equivalent to having someone dressing up like Napoleon and putting their left hand in their shirt). Jaws was used for approaching danger, The Magnificent Seven for good times in the great outdoors, etc. These themes were known by everyone and were a cultural shorthand. That's a level of success no one approaches these days.

I guess you could say the James Bond theme or the Mission Impossible theme are also touchstones of a type. Put that music in the background and you immediately set the scene.

That sort of thing.

That never happened with Titanic.

There isn't anyone promising in the current group of composers routinely working in Hollywood today.

I don't know, I really loved Fernando Velazquez's The Impossible. Roque Banos is pretty good. Carlo Siliotto. Benjamin Wallfisch. There are some good composers working out there.

There also seem to be a lot of foreign directors doing "Hollywood" films (Alfonso Cuaron for Gravity, Steve McQueen for 12 Years a Slave, for example). They may bring eventually bring new blood with them.

I have hope.

[AndyDursin]

Hans Zimmer scoring 12 Years a Slave doesn't show much evidence of that unfortunately.

Either way it's good to have hope. I've thrown in the towel

[mkaroly]

Lol...I have thrown in the towel too.