Star Wars Blu-ray Set 2011

[AndyDursin]

Just think of the dollars he'd make if he for once realized that there are a large number of people who want to see the cuts that made the films important to begin with in the best quality. His determination to force people to see only the tampered versions and accept them only in the context of the prequel trilogy that I prefer to say never existed is not something I intend to reward.

To be honest I think most of the Star Wars "fanboys" who hate the prequels and who think RETURN OF THE JEDI is a great movie have rose colored glasses on.

[Eric W.]

To be honest I think most of the Star Wars "fanboys" who hate the prequels and who think RETURN OF THE JEDI is a great movie have rose colored glasses on.

I have a lot of issues with the prequels. I hate TPM outright. 2 and 3 have their moments. Not bad. Not great. Not Empire caliber or even close to it.

They'll be great eye candy in Blu, though. No doubt about it.


Empire is still far and away the peak of the entire thing IMO.

Jedi is halfway decent. Certainly not great and a huge comedown from Empire. Damned teddy bears.

Guess I'm a fanboy.

[AndyDursin]

Hey I grew up on the old movies, I still love them, I consider myself a "fanboy" -- I was more directing that comment at the internet fans who think Lucas pillaged their childhoods by making the prequels and can't see the problems the original trilogy had at times.

I have a lot of issues with the prequels. I hate TPM outright. 2 and 3 have their moments. Not bad. Not great. Not Empire caliber or even close to it.

Well, none of them are EMPIRE STRIKES BACK caliber (for me I prefer the original STAR WARS to all of them), but you're talking about one of the greatest movie (or movies) of all-time there so it doesn't mean they're these abominations either. They suffer from comparisons for certain but when you look at most of the big "blockbuster" films of the last 10 years, I'd take any of them over the likes of TRANSFORMERS, etc. any day.

For me REVENGE OF THE SITH is a superior film than RETURN OF THE JEDI and was extremely entertaining. Did it a have a few goofy moments? Sure. So did the old movies. I also like, to a lesser degree, THE PHANTOM MENACE, which was supposed to function as a kids matinee type of movie -- it's not great but it was fun and had some terrific individual set-pieces in it. I also liked the visual design of the movie, the cinematography, and loved Williams' score (the best of the three prequel scores IMO) so that carries me through it.

The one that I disliked heavily was ATTACK OF THE CLONES, which fails completely since the feeble "love story" is supposed to carry it. Between the indifferent performances and the poor dialogue that one failed miserably since it relied the most on the interplay between the characters as opposed to the story really moving forward. I laughed at portions of that film in theaters and have never cared for it.

That said I didn't mean to hijack this into a prequel discussion, just that when I see comments like "I pretend the prequels don't exist," I find that kind of POV a bit over the top when RETURN OF THE JEDI is a limp, lethargic movie for almost half of its running time (and it's not the Ewoks that were the problem for me specifically -- it was more the boring talk and tired feeling you could sense from the performances) and yet hard-core Star Wars fans attack, say, REVENGE OF THE SITH when, objectively, I think the latter is a superior movie -- sacreligious as it is to say that, and this is coming from an old school Star Wars fanboy.

Sure, the prequels aren't nearly as "good" as the old series, but I'd still watch all of them in one sitting, even if ATTACK OF THE CLONES was as much fun as KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL (now there I think Lucas & Spielberg did "rape our childhoods," lol).

And THE CLONE WARS animated series is actually pretty good too -- at least far better than ATTACK OF THE CLONES, lol!! (doesn't take much).

[Eric W.]

For me REVENGE OF THE SITH is a superior film than RETURN OF THE JEDI and was extremely entertaining.

In some ways...yeah, I think I can grant that. Not having the teddy bears in it right off the bat is a huge upgrade.

Did it a have a few goofy moments? Sure. So do the old movies. I also like, to a lesser degree, THE PHANTOM MENACE, which was supposed to function as a kids matinee type of movie -- it's not great but it was fun and had some terrific individual set-pieces in it.

I think my biggest problem with Sith is some blatant continuity issues and overall the prequels are just poorly written, especially character dialog.

Now, the SW films in general were never Shakespeare to begin with but some of the writing is just painful outright, especially listening to some of the stuff that Hayden and Natalie pop out to each other. Dreadful.


As for TPM:
Ok, I can grant that but it's definitely kiddie fodder and when you have kids showing up with braces and Nike sneakers and the dialogue throughout...aw hell, don't get me started.

I watched it twice. I'll never watch it again. It's hopeless and worthless to me.

The one that I disliked heavily was ATTACK OF THE CLONES, which fails completely since the feeble "love story" is supposed to carry it. Between the indifferent performances and the poor dialogue that one failed miserably since it relied the most on the interplay between the characters as opposed to the story really moving forward.

You said it. I'll probably not bother with it again, either, if I'm honest about it.

I'll watch Sith and dive into the extras. It'll still be well worth it. I care about the original Trilogy the most.

If I had my way, I'd buy just the original trilogy but I don't think we'll get that option, or at least not right away.

That said I didn't mean to hijack this into a prequel discussion, just that when I see comments like "I pretend the prequels don't exist," I find that a bit absurd because RETURN OF THE JEDI is a limp, lethargic movie for almost half of its running time and yet hard-core Star Wars fans attack, say, REVENGE OF THE SITH when, for me at least, objectively I think the latter is a superior movie -- sacreligious as it is to say that, and this is coming from an old school Star Wars fanboy.

I'll take Sith, lumps and all, but I also wish the other prequels didn't exist if I'm honest about it.

[AndyDursin]

I re-edited my earlier post to clear my ranting up a bit.

Now, the SW films in general were never Shakespeare to begin with but some of the writing is just painful outright, especially listening to some of the stuff that Hayden and Natalie pop out to each other. Dreadful.

True, but for me it was only a big problem with ATTACK OF THE CLONES since that film relied so heavily on their sequences together. There's so much other stuff going on in SITH that it's easier to overlook that issue (and hey, I laughed outloud when Obi-Wan did his "not even the younglings survived" line -- but I still like the movie plenty).

Some of the dialogue in the first STAR WARS, especially Carrie Fisher's lines, are godawful too -- and as much as I love Princess Leia, Fisher wasn't a great actress and she's really not very good in the first movie if you look at it objectively.

But, don't get me wrong, still much better than Natalie Portman, lol

It's hopeless and worthless to me.

I can rewatch PHANTOM MENACE just for Williams' scoring, which was dynamic and the best of all of his SW prequel scores. I like the design, I really like the last 20 minutes or so when Lucas did the cross-cutting and it felt like a bona-fide Star Wars film.

It's got its problems, but it's definitely got some good elements in it -- for me. I know you won't agree though!

[Eric W.]

True, but for me it was only a big problem with ATTACK OF THE CLONES since that film relied so heavily on their sequences together. There's so much other stuff going on in SITH that it's easier to overlook that issue (and hey, I laughed outloud when Obi-Wan did his "not even the younglings survived" line -- but I still like the movie plenty).

Some of the dialogue in the first STAR WARS, especially Carrie Fisher's lines, are godawful too -- and as much as I love Princess Leia, Fisher wasn't a great actress and she's really not very good in the first movie if you look at it objectively.

But, don't get me wrong, still much better than Natalie Portman, lol

All true.

I can rewatch PHANTOM MENACE just for Williams' scoring, which was dynamic and the best of all of his SW prequel scores. I like the design, I really like the last 20 minutes or so when Lucas did the cross-cutting and it felt like a bona-fide Star Wars film.

I can listen to the CDs. A lot less painful although hearing what for me is a noticeable decline in the Williams of that score vs. the Star Wars scores of the 80s is also painful. He certainly has its moments but the differences are very clear to my ears at least.

Overall still very good music, though, don't get me wrong!

It's got its problems, but it's definitely got some good elements in it -- for me. I know you won't agree though!

You can count on that.


Clone Wars series is pretty cool.

[Eric Paddon]

Just think of the dollars he'd make if he for once realized that there are a large number of people who want to see the cuts that made the films important to begin with in the best quality. His determination to force people to see only the tampered versions and accept them only in the context of the prequel trilogy that I prefer to say never existed is not something I intend to reward.

To be honest I think most of the Star Wars "fanboys" who hate the prequels and who think RETURN OF THE JEDI is a great movie have rose colored glasses on.

I'd hardly call Jedi a "great" movie, because it does as Gary Kurtz noted in his recent interview, represent how Lucas had sacrificed storytelling for marketing by then. It is too neat and too tidy a wrap-up to things but I'd rather have that original trilogy as is than a permanently tampered version that shoehorns things into a broader universe based on the prequels that I just gave up on after the first two as forced and ridiculous.

[mkaroly]

EMPIRE is my favorite of them all; the story between Luke and Darth is the best JEDI has to offer IMO. SW was awesome. The first films aren't perfect but I find them more watchable than the prequels and more compelling.

What I don't like about the prequels are basically the poor storytelling and poor direction (which I put on Lucas), and poor acting. I agree with Andy that AOTC is really bad, especially in its love story...it was wretched and unwatchable. ROTS was much better than AOTC, but the last moments of that film and the big "NOOO!" at the end made me laugh really loud in the theater for how corny and ridiculous it was. Granted, there are bits and pieces that are fun: the Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan duel with Darth Maul was cool (Williams' music good too) from TPM...mostly the lightsaber dueling was what I enjoyed about the prequels. John Williams' music is solid as well.

I'm sure the BR release of this will sell really, really well. If it doesn't though, that might be a bad sign for other major releases making their appearance anytime soon. I can't imagine that this release will be a failure though. A BR release of JAWS would be extremely tempting for me as well as the ALIEN set.

[AndyDursin]

Just think of the dollars he'd make if he for once realized that there are a large number of people who want to see the cuts that made the films important to begin with in the best quality. His determination to force people to see only the tampered versions and accept them only in the context of the prequel trilogy that I prefer to say never existed is not something I intend to reward.

To be honest I think most of the Star Wars "fanboys" who hate the prequels and who think RETURN OF THE JEDI is a great movie have rose colored glasses on.

I'd hardly call Jedi a "great" movie, because it does as Gary Kurtz noted in his recent interview, represent how Lucas had sacrificed storytelling for marketing by then. It is too neat and too tidy a wrap-up to things but I'd rather have that original trilogy as is than a permanently tampered version that shoehorns things into a broader universe based on the prequels that I just gave up on after the first two as forced and ridiculous.

SITH is far the best one of the three, by a huge margin. It even leads into the events of the '77 STAR WARS quite effectively and reverently -- and does not feel out of place IMO in their company.

CLONES was awful but you should give it a chance. Don't knock it until you've seen it!

[AndyDursin]

I'm sure the BR release of this will sell really, really well. If it doesn't though, that might be a bad sign for other major releases making their appearance anytime soon. I can't imagine that this release will be a failure though. A BR release of JAWS would be extremely tempting for me as well as the ALIEN set.

I think the next 12-18 months are basically going to seal the fate of Blu Ray one way or the other as far as it gaining major traction in big player penetration numbers. They've got some big catalog titles coming up with ALIEN and BACK TO THE FUTURE, plus STAR WARS next year and quite possibly INDIANA JONES on top of it -- so it's make or break time. By the end of 2011 I think we'll know if it's going to expand beyond its current boundaries.

[mkaroly]

I think the next 12-18 months are basically going to seal the fate of Blu Ray one way or the other as far as it gaining major traction in big player penetration numbers. They've got some big catalog titles coming up with ALIEN and BACK TO THE FUTURE, plus STAR WARS next year and quite possibly INDIANA JONES on top of it -- so it's make or break time. By the end of 2011 I think we'll know if it's going to expand beyond its current boundaries.

I never thought of BTTF trilogy as being a major release. I don't see it selling as many units as any of the other ones you mentioned, but maybe I'm just really out of it and don't know the selling power of the BTTF franchise. It'll be interesting to see how many BR players move this holiday season in anticipation of releases like SW and the others.

[AndyDursin]

I never thought of BTTF trilogy as being a major release. I don't see it selling as many units as any of the other ones you mentioned, but maybe I'm just really out of it and don't know the selling power of the BTTF franchise. It'll be interesting to see how many BR players move this holiday season in anticipation of releases like SW and the others.

It will be as big (if not bigger) than the ALIEN franchise I would wager...would be interesting to see the results, but certainly the BTTF films were bigger successes (by a wide margin) than any of the ALIEN films at the box-office originally. Even ALIENS, while a major success, wasn't a "blockbuster" per se. And certainly ALIEN 3 and ALIEN RESURRECTION tanked by any measure...though I'm guessing the ALIEN "fanboy" base is probably larger at this point in time.

I think both of those ought to sell well -- but you're right Michael, they won't be "format sellers" the way a STAR WARS or INDIANA JONES set would be.

At this point I think there are more than enough good titles and a diversity of content on Blu Ray to warrant a purchase among cinephiles (you can get in on the action under $100 Michael this holiday season for sure with a good player), but getting the mainstream involved will take more than BTTF and ALIEN, I agree.

[Eric Paddon]

CLONES was awful but you should give it a chance. Don't knock it until you've seen it!

I did see Clones, if we mean the second film. That was when I threw up my hands and said, "Forget it!"

[AndyDursin]

CLONES was awful but you should give it a chance. Don't knock it until you've seen it!

I did see Clones, if we mean the second film. That was when I threw up my hands and said, "Forget it!"

No I meant to say REVENGE OF THE SITH was clearly better than the others.

[DavidBanner]

I agree with Andy that Return of the Jedi has some major problems, mostly due to a clear level of fatigue in the storytelling and in the performances -particularly Harrison Ford.

I didn't dislike the prequel trilogy as much as others did, although it had huge flaws. My biggest issues with the prequels were the terrible dialogue and the mostly bad performances. Natalie Portman is actually an interesting actress, and has been one since her earlier performances in movies like Leon and Heat. In these films, she's just awful - her major scene in Phantom Menace where she has to beg the Gungans for help has almost no life to it at all. And I have to place the blame for the bad performances on Lucas - as the director, it was his job to get all the actors on the same page. Some of the performers, like Ian McDiarmid and Liam Neeson, are fine on their own, just as Alec Guiness was in Star Wars. But the rest simply don't have anything to bring to the table - and Lucas' apparent style of just saying "Faster, more intense" doesn't help the situation.

That said, the prequels have many good qualities to them. Phantom Menace has a lovely production design and a sense of time and place in it. It also has two great lightsaber duels and many terrific passages by John Williams. You really get a feel for a different time in the galaxy when Jedi Knights really did watch over peace and justice. And there's a great racing sequence inset into the middle of the movie. Attack of the Clones has some really good sequences in it - the speeder chase across Coruscant is a nice piece on its own. The whole subplot of Obi-Wan investigating the clones and confronting Jango Fett actually works better than the movie that surrounds it. The one scene inside Jango Fett's quarters is really helped by the performances - there's a solid feeling of tension.

Revenge of the Sith is absolutely the best of the prequels, mostly because as Lucas has admitted, it has most of the story material he'd intended for the prequels to hold. It probably has the best score of the three prequels, due to Williams taking many interesting chances that I would not have expected from him or Lucas - his cues for the Squid Opera, and for "Padme's Ruminations" are both inspired and disturbing. I agree with Andy that it also dovetails nicely into the original Star Wars with enough callbacks to make things continually interesting. The Oedipus Rex-like irony of Anakin's fate is a much more interesting and classical way of approaching the problem than I expected. There's also an interesting and quite dark part of the story that may pass without getting properly noticed - Palpatine is quite accurate when he predicts that the Jedi will take over the Senate if they beat him. It really is a matter of the Jedi or the Sith surviving. Both Yoda and Mace Windu note that they would have to take over if Palpatine won't resign voluntarily, and Yoda notes that this is a truly dark road for them to travel. (In a sense, the Jedi would likely have not survived in their original form no matter what happened. As it was, they were wiped out. If they had won, they would have lost their purity, among other things.)

Of the original trilogy, I have always appreciated Star Wars the most, due to it being such a significant part of my childhood. Empire Strikes Back is arguably a better film on many levels, but without the first film, none of the rest would have happened. Return of the Jedi is simply a letdown. It has a great final moment in the Luke/Vader climactic duel, where the score really comes to life. And it has terrific model effects, particularly in the last battle. But the dialogue is just awful, and most of the performances are clearly just being mailed in.