JOKER - Joaquin Phoenix - October

[Paul MacLean]

That old codger is Joaqiun Phoenix???

How many cartons or cigarettes does he smoke per day?

[mkaroly]

The only thing I don't like about that trailer is that Joker looks like his impetus for becoming what he is has to do with being victimized by society (getting bullied, beaten up, etc.). I am not up to snuff with my Joker lore by any stretch of the imagination, but I wonder if this is going to make him as evil/compelling of a character as he would be if he were just a psychopath. Has he had a "sympathetic" background in the comic book lore? I never have felt sympathy for him in the past and don't want to...just a thought. Mildly interested in seeing this with a chance of being more interested as time goes on.

[AndyDursin]

That's a good point Michael, we'll have to see how it's handled.

It's interesting because that kind of origin would play against the point Christopher Nolan was trying to make in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, where Batman was stripped of his so-called "privilege" and fought his way up on the basis of who he was internally -- not materially. Such an origin in this Joker would seem to indicate it's not him, but rather the environment, that shapes his sanity and psychotic tendencies, which would be the total reverse message.

I always thought the Joker was a psycho even before he "became the Joker" -- certainly that's how Nicholson came across.

[Monterey Jack]

I always thought the Joker was a psycho even before he "became the Joker" -- certainly that's how Nicholson came across.

Precisely. Young Jack Napier blew away a pair of frightened rich people he was robbing not because he had to, but because he got off on it. His eventual transformation into the Joker was just a physical manifestation of what was there under the surface all along, and being confronted with that inner ugliness was the last straw that drove him into irredeemable psychosis.

[mkaroly]

Agreed with the above. I always perceived Joker to be the epitome/symbolic representation of the darkest side of humanity without filters, no moral boundaries, etc. That kind of evil is very threatening; it is not something that anyone could fix and why the world needs a hero (like Batman, but he has his issues too). I did enjoy Burton's BATMAN and Nolan's trilogy; I preferred Ledger's Joker to Nicholson's Joker overall because Nolan's film was better to me, but both performances embodied the psychotic root of Joker's personality/character/foundation. I don't think I am ready to accept a different Joker...lol...but at least this film doesn't have Jared Leto's Joker from SS in it!

[AndyDursin]

This is a more engaging looking trailer than the first one.

[AndyDursin]

PASS.

Sounds as dreadful as the first trailer looked...

https://time.com/5666055/venice-joker-r ... not-funny/

Joker Wants to Be a Movie About the Emptiness of Our Culture. Instead, It’s a Prime Example of It
BY STEPHANIE ZACHAREK

It’s official. With Joker, Joaquin Phoenix is a certified graduate of the Acme Academy of Dramatic Arts. You want acting? Come and get it.

Skills on display include but are not limited to leering, jeering, airhorn-style blasts of laughter timed for maximum audience discomfort, funky-chicken style dance moves, the occasional blank, dead stare and assorted moony expressions indicating soulful lonerism.

But don’t for a minute think Phoenix isn’t funny, too. They say you never forget Clowning 101, and Phoenix hasn’t: He hops around like an unhinged Emmett Kelly, twisting his physique into weird and unsettling shapes. His body has a rubbery angularity, like a chicken bone soaked in Coca-Cola.

In Joker — playing in competition here at the Venice Film Festival — Phoenix is acting so hard you can feel the desperation throbbing in his veins. He leaves you wanting to start him a GoFundMe, so he won’t have to pour so much sweat into his job again. But the aggressive terribleness of his performance isn’t completely his fault. (He has often been, and generally remains, a superb actor. Just not here.)

Director Todd Phillips — who made frat-boy comedies like Road Trip and Old School before graduating to dude-bro comedies like The Hangover movies — bears at least some of the blame, and the aggressive and possibly irresponsible idiocy of Joker overall is his alone to answer for. Phillips may want us to think he’s giving us a movie all about the emptiness of our culture, but really, he’s just offering a prime example of it.

Joker is a stand-alone origin story that dovetails with, but does not strictly follow, DC Universe Batman lore. Phoenix’s Arthur Fleck — he’ll later become one of Batman’s nemeses, the Joker, in case you didn’t already know that — is an odd, lonely guy who lives at home with the mother (played by a wan Frances Conroy) he love-hates.

Arthur works for a sad rent-a-clown joint, and nothing ever goes right. This is clear from the moment we meet him: he’s tense and nervous and he can’t relax. The movie is set in a Gotham City that’s a lazy approximation of gritty 1970s-era New York, complete with garbage strikes and “super-rats” overrunning the city. On the job in clown costume, Arthur gets beaten up by a mob of nasty punks — and then almost gets fired because they stole and broke the “going out of business sign” he was twirling for a client.

More bad stuff happens, day in, day out. He gets angrier and more isolated by the minute. No one is ever kind to Arthur; he’s the world’s saddest punching bag.

When the city’s social services close down, he can no longer receive counseling there, or get his meds. (He carries around a little laminated card that he holds out helpfully whenever he laughs inappropriately, which is pretty much all the time. It reads, “Forgive my laughter, I have a brain injury.”) The one bright spot of his day, or night, is watching a Johnny Carson-style talk-show host, Murray Franklin (Robert De Niro), on television. He dreams of being a stand-up comic and someday being on the show. His wish will come true, but life will have beaten the poor lad down interminably before then.

As you can probably guess, all of Arthur’s travails are leading up to a series of “See what you made me do?” brutalities, most of which happen while he’s dressed up in his clown suit. Violence makes him feel more in control, less pathetic. Killing — usually with a gun, but scissors or a good old-fashioned suffocation will do just fine — empowers him.

But it’s not as if we don’t know how this pathology works: In America, there’s a mass shooting or attempted act of violence by a guy like Arthur practically every other week. And yet we’re supposed to feel some sympathy for Arthur, the troubled lamb; he just hasn’t had enough love. Before long, he becomes a vigilante folk hero — his first signature act is to kill a trio of annoying Wall Street spuds while riding the subway, which inspires the masses to don clown masks and march enthusiastically around the city with “Kill the Rich!” placards.

Arthur also tries to work out a personal beef with rich asshat and aspiring city mayor Thomas Wayne, father of you-know-who. Because, it turns out, Arthur has some daddy issues too. Who would have guessed?

Joker — which was written by Phillips and Scott Silver — doesn’t have a plot; it’s more like a bunch of reaction GIFs strung together. When Arthur gets fired from his clown job, he struts by the time-clock, deadpans, “Oh no, I forgot to punch out” and then, wait for it, socks it so hard it dangles from the wall. Make a note of the moment, because you’ll be seeing it a lot in your Twitter and Facebook feeds.

The movie’s cracks — and it’s practically all cracks — are stuffed with phony philosophy. Joker is dark only in a stupidly adolescent way, but it wants us to think it’s imparting subtle political or cultural wisdom. Just before one of his more violent tirades, Arthur muses, “Everybody just screams at each other. Nobody’s civil anymore.” Who doesn’t feel that way in our terrible modern times? But Arthur’s observation is one of those truisms that’s so true it just slides off the wall, a message that both the left and the right can get behind and use for their own aims. It means nothing.

Meanwhile, the movie lionizes and glamorizes Arthur even as it shakes its head, faux-sorrowfully, over his violent behavior. There’s an aimless subplot involving a neighbor in Arthur’s apartment building, played by Zazie Beetz, in an underdeveloped role. (Beetz also appears in another movie here at the festival, Benedict Andrews’s Seberg, where she’s given much more to do.) Arthur has a crush on her, and though he does her no harm, there’s still something creepily entitled about his attentiveness to her. He could easily be adopted as the patron saint of incels.

Arthur is a mess, but we’re also supposed to think he’s kind of great — a misunderstood savant. Dressed up for his big TV moment in a turquoise paisley shirt, marigold vest and dapper cranberry suit (admittedly a marvelous feat of costume design), Arthur struts down an outdoor stairway like a rock’n’roll hero. It’s the most energizing moment in the movie, but what is it winding us up for? Arthur inspires chaos and anarchy, but the movie makes it look like he’s starting a revolution, where the rich are taken down, the poor get everything they need and deserve, and the sad guys who can’t get a date become killer heroes. There’s a sick joke in there somewhere. Unfortunately, it’s on us.

[mkaroly]

Yeah...sounds like he is a victim, not a psychopath from the beginning. I don't find the victim storyline compelling though, so I will pass as well.

[Paul MacLean]

Yeah...sounds like he is a victim, not a psychopath from the beginning. I don't find the victim storyline compelling though, so I will pass as well.

And what's the point of a movie featuring the Joker -- with no Batman?

That's like a Moriarty movie without Sherlock Holmes, or a Sherrif of Nottingham movie with no Robin Hood.

[AndyDursin]

Especially because this movie apparently doesn't, or won't, have any connection to any subsequent or successive Batman movie. It certainly doesn't sound like they're going to be bringing Phoenix back for appearances in the upcoming Robert Pattinson series, but of course, anything can change.

Sounds like a pretentious "one off" shot at making some money in a moderately budgeted TAXI DRIVER/KING OF COMEDY clone. And the critics who like it sound an awful lot like this guy:

This is a truly nightmarish vision of late-era capitalism - arguably the best social horror film since Get Out - and Joaquin Phoenix is magnetic in it.

https://www.timeout.com/london/film/joker-1

"Arguably" the best "social horror film" in 2 whole years?!? What incredible praise!

You just know Owen Gleiberman will love it,.blah blah blah "Age of Trump"...blah blah blah "mental illness"....blah blah blah "gun control".

[AndyDursin]

Going to be a lot of debate on this one. Phoenix has already walked out of at least one press interview.

A Twitter search for “Joker dangerous movie” yields a slew of tweets calling the film "dangerous" or expressing the fear that it could inspire more violence in an era of relentlessly cyclic mass shootings by domestic terrorists. This is a sentiment shared by Time in their scathing review of the film: “It’s not as if we don’t know how this pathology works: In America, there’s a mass shooting or attempted act of violence by a guy like Arthur [Fleck] practically every other week. And yet we’re supposed to feel some sympathy for Arthur, the troubled lamb.”

https://uk.ign.com/articles/2019/09/23/ ... -interview

[AndyDursin]

Think I might pass seeing this one on Thursday.

https://www.chron.com/national/article/ ... 475774.php

[AndyDursin]

It's the feel good movie of the year!

Fears of incel mass shooter at Joker opening weekend put cops across the country on high alert, as NYPD plans undercover detachments and cinemas ban masks and costumes

High security is being put in place across the US for opening weekend of Joker
NYPD plans to deploy undercover units as well as visible uniformed patrols
LAPD will 'maintain high visibility around theaters' starting Thursday afternoon
Major theater chains plan bag checks and bans of masks and face paint
Army warns of 'disturbing and very specific chatter' on the dark web
Fears mount that the movie is an 'incel-friendly' portrayal of the Batman villain
Joaquin Phoenix plays down fears of violence as director pans 'woke culture'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... alert.html

...and you'd think parents would get it -- but people today? Good thing someone said something.

One theater chain is getting pretty candid about Joker.

Posting a rare critical-sounding assessment of an upcoming film on its docket, Alamo Drafthouse Cinema published a warning to parents about Warner Bros.’ controversial film.

The company, which operates 40 theaters coast to coast, told parents the movie is not for kids and has “overall bad vibes” in a Facebook post which was confirmed by an Alamo representative.

“Parental warning (this is not a joke),” begins the message. “Joker is Rated R and for good reason. There’s lots of very, very rough language, brutal violence, and overall bad vibes.”

Continues the warning: “It’s a gritty, dark, and realistic Taxi Driver-esque depiction of one man’s descent into madness. It’s not for kids, and they won’t like it, anyway.”

The warning adds: “There’s no Batman.”

It’s an unusually protective move from a theater chain, as most exhibitors typically turn a blind eye to whether kids should see adult content in the hopes of keeping their seats full.

Previously, Alamo announced it would add additional security personnel to its theaters for Joker‘s opening weekend due to concerns about the film inspiring real-life violence. Other theaters are taking additional measures as well, and in New York, the NYPD plans to deploy undercover officers to theaters, according to Deadline.

https://ew.com/movies/2019/10/02/joker-parents-warning/

[mkaroly]

Really? Increased security? Sounds more like a studio PR stunt/hype in conjunction with reviewers to get people into the theaters to see the movie. That is brutally cynical, but I can't help it...

[AndyDursin]

I don't think it's a PR stunt --

1. The Colorado shooting on the opening night of THE DARK KNIGHT has got to be paramount in their minds.

2. This movie is much more extreme than THE DARK KNIGHT, supposedly extremely violent and realistic in its depiction of the shooter and his mentality -- with the shooter being here the Joker.

I've read enough reviews to know this isn't worth a trip to the theaters for me. Phoenix apparently is just recycling past performances and the movie is repetitious and one-note, which you can probably see from the trailers. It may be effective for what it does, but it's also the director of THE HANGOVER working from his own script, so I'll wait for the UHD to arrive.

Beyond that though is this central question -- sure, you don't want to censure art, and prohibit what people can or cannot make, especially in these hypersensitive times. Yet, would Hollywood make a movie that "humanizes" school shooters? Because this film, apparently disturbingly, plays along those lines...which is why it's raising a lot of concerns. This isn't a crazy Batman movie, it's about a guy (always with a tough childhood, unloved surroundings, etc.) who loses it and decides to kill people. Hopefully it doesn't set some nuts off -- if it ever did, I could see them pulling it out of theaters immediately.

It's really surprising this movie got made. I mean, great, they're taking risks and it's not just a cookie-cutter Marvel film -- but does it have to go so extreme over to the other side? Bottom line for me is if you're that worried about the depiction of a psychotic character and his associated violence -- and how it's portrayed, with the killer apparently being sympathetic -- perhaps you shouldn't have made the movie to begin with.

Here's hoping the filmmakers don't have to answer the inevitable questions they'll receive and the film goes off uneventfully for all.