SUPERMAN RETURNS Thread (Olde Spoiler Warnin' Ahead)

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Bill Williams
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#16 Post by Bill Williams »

After seeing it a few times, I've come to the conclusion that SUPERMAN RETURNS does not have a great trailer. Strip it of the Williams and Brando audio and what do you have? And I still don't understand why they had to alter the colors of Superman's costume...these days it seems everyone has a better idea, you know?
That's why they call it a teaser, my friend. I happened to check it out yesterday - it's only the second time I've seen it (I'd love to see it on DVD, along with all of Bryan Singer's blogs!) - and I found it pretty impressive. Granted, the clip of young Clark falling through the barn is a bit reminiscent of the clip from "Batman Begins" where young Bruce Wayne fell through the cave, but otherwise the trailer has pretty much all of the necessary elements to entice new fans and long-time Superman fans who fondly remember the Christopher Reeve films.

If it didn't have the John Williams Krypton theme and the Marlon Brando voiceover, it would be missing something unique that we remember all too well. However, I take it to be part of Singer's approach to the film to make it a sequel of sorts to STM and Donner's SII, to have those elements in place for SR. Besides, SR won't be the only time where the John Williams theme has been used in another Superman medium - remember the Ruby-Spears cartoons from 1988? Ron Jones incorporated the theme into his version of the main title theme, and it worked. As long as John Ottman remains true to the spirit of Williams' original music, I'll be happy with it.

As for the darker muted colors of Superman's costume, granted it leans toward the slightly darker colors the evil Superman wore in those moments of SIII, but again we have to remember that this is a new interpretation of the costume. Every generation of Superman has had its own interpretation while staying true to the familiar design. Having the S shield as the belt buckle is a tip of the hat to Yvonne Blake's original costume designs for Christopher Reeve's costume for STM - even then, she designed the costume to have the S shield as the belt buckle. And while the shorts are quite smaller than what we remember, we should be thankful that it's not a thong he's wearing! :lol:

Kal-El.org has a new image of Brandon Routh as Superman on the site, this one the latest in the "Got Milk?" series. Quite a funny tie-in!
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AndyDursin
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#17 Post by AndyDursin »

Bill Williams wrote:
After seeing it a few times, I've come to the conclusion that SUPERMAN RETURNS does not have a great trailer. Strip it of the Williams and Brando audio and what do you have? And I still don't understand why they had to alter the colors of Superman's costume...these days it seems everyone has a better idea, you know?
That's why they call it a teaser, my friend. I happened to check it out yesterday - it's only the second time I've seen it (I'd love to see it on DVD, along with all of Bryan Singer's blogs!) - and I found it pretty impressive. Granted, the clip of young Clark falling through the barn is a bit reminiscent of the clip from "Batman Begins" where young Bruce Wayne fell through the cave, but otherwise the trailer has pretty much all of the necessary elements to entice new fans and long-time Superman fans who fondly remember the Christopher Reeve films.

If it didn't have the John Williams Krypton theme and the Marlon Brando voiceover, it would be missing something unique that we remember all too well. However, I take it to be part of Singer's approach to the film to make it a sequel of sorts to STM and Donner's SII, to have those elements in place for SR. Besides, SR won't be the only time where the John Williams theme has been used in another Superman medium - remember the Ruby-Spears cartoons from 1988? Ron Jones incorporated the theme into his version of the main title theme, and it worked. As long as John Ottman remains true to the spirit of Williams' original music, I'll be happy with it.

As for the darker muted colors of Superman's costume, granted it leans toward the slightly darker colors the evil Superman wore in those moments of SIII, but again we have to remember that this is a new interpretation of the costume. Every generation of Superman has had its own interpretation while staying true to the familiar design. Having the S shield as the belt buckle is a tip of the hat to Yvonne Blake's original costume designs for Christopher Reeve's costume for STM - even then, she designed the costume to have the S shield as the belt buckle. And while the shorts are quite smaller than what we remember, we should be thankful that it's not a thong he's wearing! :lol:

Kal-El.org has a new image of Brandon Routh as Superman on the site, this one the latest in the "Got Milk?" series. Quite a funny tie-in!
That's all true Bill. I learned years ago not to judge any movie by its trailer. The costume does bug me. We're getting into a time when it's like everything is "dark" and "serious" and even muting the colors of his cape falls along those lines. I just hope the movie gets the tone right, we'll have to wait and see.

One question I had for you -- is it true Lois has a kid in this movie? The FSM board has a few people who are claiming that, and I'd find it fascinating (and quite odd!) if that was the case.

More than anything else to do with the movie, I still have major doubts about John Ottman...if FANTASTIC FOUR (and even X-MEN 2, which I didn't especially care for) are any indication we're going to get a stock super-hero score interchangeable from any other genre score except for Williams' themes. I wouldn't even be surprised if he gets replaced (he's had a few scores rejected in the past), but we'll see.

Hopefully Roman can give us the low-down, even though we all know he's (gasp!) no fan of Williams' music! :shock:

Bill Williams
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#18 Post by Bill Williams »

One question I had for you -- is it true Lois has a kid in this movie? The FSM board has a few people who are claiming that, and I'd find it fascinating (and quite odd!) if that was the case.
Yes, Andy, that is indeed true. Lois in this film has a young son. Whether the boy's father is her fiance' Richard White ("X-Men's" James [Cyclops] Marsden) or Superman is unknown at this point. The photo in question is up at the WB's official "Superman Returns" web site.
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AndyDursin
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#19 Post by AndyDursin »

Bill Williams wrote:
One question I had for you -- is it true Lois has a kid in this movie? The FSM board has a few people who are claiming that, and I'd find it fascinating (and quite odd!) if that was the case.
Yes, Andy, that is indeed true. Lois in this film has a young son. Whether the boy's father is her fiance' Richard White ("X-Men's" James [Cyclops] Marsden) or Superman is unknown at this point. The photo in question is up at the WB's official "Superman Returns" web site.
So we've got ANOTHER film with an actress in her early-mid 20s (in this case Kate Bosworth was 22 making this film) playing mom to a precocious kid?? What the heck is going on in Hollywood?? :shock: :?: Plus, if time has supposed to have elapsed between Superman's time on Earth and stuff has happened since he's been away, why are all the actors so young?

I don't particularly care how "revisionist" they get, but I have a hard time believing Lois Lane would have a child before she's 21 -- if that's the case this truly IS a unique "interpretation!" :shock:

Anyway, thanks for the clarification, Bill, I just caught the still online (guess I just never noticed the kid before!). I will have to see how it plays out for sure but I don't get that angle with the actors being the ages that they are...it's like MURPHY BROWN for today's youth! :lol:

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#20 Post by romanD »

I highly doubt that John Ottman will get replaced! He and Singer are close friends for decades and I guess you can safely say that Singer likes his music! Also him being the editor he did also the temp probably and the studio knows exactly what he is going to deliver...

Besides that, the recordings are going well, though everybody is very tense as the movie still has no picture locked and so John has constantly to rewrite stuff, doing some editing and so forth... still one more week recording.

I love his Fantastic Four score.. it has more themes than most of the other movies last year and I also really like them! too bad it was so heavily recut in the movie, but John was so kind to give me a 5.1 mix dvd of his complete score, which just blows my windows out (same with x2... :-) a score I never liked that much on its CD, but I tell you, that is a totally new experience in 5.1 whoaaa! :-) ).

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#21 Post by AndyDursin »

Roman I know you love his FF score. That and X2 frankly don't do anything for me -- and I have to admit I'm no fan of his in general -- but to each his own. He does have a track record of scores being thrown out, though, and despite his relationship with the director, if he FAILS to deliver the studio honchos will have final say over the direction of the music.

Anyway we'll just wait and see, I'm hoping he goes above and beyond his usual capacity and gives us something inspired, but I doubt he'll be able to do it (at least based on his past scores).

On another note, anyone else think it's odd that we haven't (at least to my knowledge) seen or heard anything from Kevin Spacey and his Lex Luthor interpretation? We ought to have something by this point being only a couple of months out!

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#22 Post by romanD »

yeah sure, but I guess he is just too involved in the production that this late in the game a rejection happens...

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#23 Post by AndyDursin »

romanD wrote:yeah sure, but I guess he is just too involved in the production that this late in the game a rejection happens...
That's true. But it's not that late :) Remember how quickly ST-TMP came about, too! Hey maybe he'll do the job, I just don't have much faith in him, between what he's written elsewhere and his general ragging on Williams' classic themes.

Are you going into the sessions Roman? Any ideas about when if so?

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#24 Post by romanD »

no, unfortunately not... they are already recording for a week now and have another 7 days ahead...

I didn't get any cheap flights to LA anymore, so I skipped it and rather went to OMEN...

but a friend of mine attends the sessions today I think, so I ask him how's the score, if you are satisfied with such a report...

In general I don't like every score John did, but FF is really sweet, and Im not saying this only because I went to the sessions. Compared to all the other summer scores last year this is one of the few which I can remember, even all the themes!

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#25 Post by AndyDursin »

romanD wrote:no, unfortunately not... they are already recording for a week now and have another 7 days ahead...

I didn't get any cheap flights to LA anymore, so I skipped it and rather went to OMEN...

but a friend of mine attends the sessions today I think, so I ask him how's the score, if you are satisfied with such a report...

In general I don't like every score John did, but FF is really sweet, and Im not saying this only because I went to the sessions. Compared to all the other summer scores last year this is one of the few which I can remember, even all the themes!
Roman you KNOW we love the reports! :)

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#26 Post by romanD »

naw... you don't! you laugh about me!!!
:shock:

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#27 Post by AndyDursin »

romanD wrote:naw... you don't! you laugh about me!!!
:shock:
No I don't!! :) We don't always agree -- especially on Williams -- but I respect your opinions my friends and we go way back. :wink:

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#28 Post by romanD »

you just say that so I don't cry! :-))))

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#29 Post by romanD »

at http://www.soundtrack.net/podcast/

you can listen to an 8 minute interview with John Ottman... pretty interesting stuff.. the CD will apparently be only 45 minutes long! ugh...

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#30 Post by AndyDursin »

I feel a lot better about the score after hearing the interview. Sounds like he wanted to depart from Williams more than Bryan Singer did, but Singer was insistent on utilizing the Superman themes proper. Good show (and I'm guessing it's NOT going to sound like Cliff Martinez's SOLARIS now!). Ottman mentions the Williams themes are actually in the score even more now than they were when the film was temped, which is not surprising to me, either.

Anyway nice work by Dan Goldwasser, it's great to hear comments like this ahead of the film coming out, and on the good stuff we care about :)

Now when are we going to see the Kevin Spacey stuff??

I second that the 45 min. score album is a major disappointment. Not even Georgio Moroder had his own song album, but seems like Ottman's score is going to be overshadowed by the song album (a first for the Superman series, sadly).

I can't believe Warner wouldn't pay for an hour-long album for SUPERMAN! :shock:

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