DRACULA (1979) Thread - Indicator [UK] Release Forthcoming

[Monterey Jack]

I know I'm being the wet blanket here but I have to be honest -- I actually prefer John Badham's "de-saturated" Dracula.

[AndyDursin]

Like they say, whatever floats your boat

Personally I absolutely hate the desaturated version. It doesn't look like B&W, it looks like a color movie that was designed for color and was unnaturally drained of how it was supposed to appear, like someone colorizing an old B&W movie in reverse.

I love the big color of Gil Taylor's cinematography and it stands out, uniquely, as a Dracula movie for that reason, and showcases the overall artistic design of the whole movie.

Good news is you can watch whicheever one you prefer! But for me the desaturated version is nearly as much of a cinematic travesty as Tangerine Dream coming into rescore LEGEND in its own way. I can't stomach the desaturated version at all, even having been forced to watch it several times over the years -- every time it felt like something was missing, which the original cinematography being restored rectified for me. Either way I am very glad work was put in for fans to restore it -- with more on the way.

[Paul MacLean]

Like they say, whatever floats your boat

But for me the desaturated version is nearly as much of a cinematic travesty as Tangerine Dream coming into rescore LEGEND in its own way.

Well, I don't know if it's that bad.

I do admit the varying quality of the prints used for the "restored" blu-ray impeded my enjoyment of it. In fact I honestly found it hard to look at sometimes. The de-saturated version is at least crisp and detailed.

Maybe if a pristine print was released I'd have an easier time with it.

[mkaroly]

I gotta watch both versions...I got the Blu Ray a while ago but have yet to put it in.

[Paul MacLean]

I hate to sound like "the pretentious artist", but I'm a photographer, and good photography -- artistic photography -- takes a real world object or moment in time and interprets it, and sometimes this means altering the visual perception in a way other than the naked eye would perceive it.

Dracula is a dark, edgy, expressionistic subject, which I think is suited a more expressionistic look. To me the material is served well by the de-saturation -- perhaps better-served than by a conventional, "reassuring" color palette.

Badham's decision to go with a de-saturated also look was ahead of its time -- even in 1991 -- and looked forward to the 2000s, when de-saturation, bleach-bypass processing and other stylized forms of color-grading be came de rigueur.

I certainly wouldn't want Jaws or Star Wars or even a Harry Potter movie to look like the de-saturated Dracula (though Half-Blood Prince got close to this look -- too close at times) but I find completely suitable for Badham's film.

That said, there is the question as to whether Badham's later "re-tooling" honors the work of Gil Taylor.

[AndyDursin]

It's a dark and expressionistic subject but this particular version is not an edgy and gory, violent take on Dracula. In fact it's probably the most sweepingly romantic version of them all as embodied by Williams's score. The visual tone of what was originally released is much more in keeping with that spirit for me.

I definitely understand what Paul is saying and I respect it, but as a viewer I can watch plenty of black and white Draculas going all the way back to Bela Lugosi. There's nothing unique or interesting for me about what Badham did by turning the color dial down with that material. And what he also did was basically take what Gil Taylor and the other artistic designers of the movie were doing and threw it away. He can't change the fact that it was filmed a certain way, lit a certain way, and should be seen in that manner, for me at least.

I guess my bottom line is if Badham wanted to shoot the movie in B&W he should've fought harder for it, instead the movie has a golden and colorful sheen and what he did after the fact was give the movie an ugly and unattractive, pallid appearance that also plays very much against its particular interpretation of the material.

[Monterey Jack]

I definitely understand what Paul is saying and I respect it, but as a viewer I can watch plenty of black and white Draculas going all the way back to Bela Lugosi. There's nothing unique or interesting for me about what Badham did by turning the color dial down with that material. And what he also did was basically take what Gil Taylor and the other artistic designers of the movie were doing and threw it away. He can't change the fact that it was filmed a certain way, lit a certain way, and should be seen in that manner, for me at least.

It's no different than George Lucas' endless digital tinkering with the Star Wars movies...a filmmaker going back decades after the fact to noodle around with their films in order to "realize their original vision". I'm always of a mind of, if you want to mess with your cinematic legacy, fine, but at least offer the original theatrical version in the best possible transfer as an option (that's why Ridley Scott is tops in this regard...he always offers the original cut on his discs). When Lucas offered the "theatrical cuts" of the Star Wars OT on those mid-00's DVDs -- but only in awful, non-anamorphic laserdisc transfers struck in 1993 -- it was like a deliberate trolling of the fanbase. "Want the versions of these movies you grew up on and which made me a very wealthy man? Here, have 'em...in the worst-possible versions imaginable outside of a degrading 1985 VHS tape!"

Coppola is also terrible in this regard. If you want the original cut of The Cotton Club on BD, you have to settle for a mediocre Aussie import.

[Paul MacLean]

I'm always of a mind of, if you want to mess with your cinematic legacy, fine, but at least offer the original theatrical version in the best possible transfer as an option (that's why Ridley Scott is tops in this regard...he always offers the original cut on his discs). When Lucas offered the "theatrical cuts" of the Star Wars OT on those mid-00's DVDs -- but only in awful, non-anamorphic laserdisc transfers struck in 1993 -- it was like a deliberate trolling of the fanbase.

I agree both versions of Dracula and the Star Wars films should be available. I think it was a bit passive-aggressive for Lucas to offer the original SW cuts in only pan & scan standard definition.

However, I think release of a black and white version of Mad Max: Fury Road is kind of stupid.

[Monterey Jack]

However, I think release of a black and white version of Mad Max: Fury Road is kind of stupid.

I've never watched it, but the B&W version of The Mist has become my "default" version of the film (it even renders some of the iffier F/X shots more palatable). Again, choice is good, but don't force one particular, after-the-fact version of a movie as the only one that will be preserved in high-def or UHD going forward.

[AndyDursin]

I wonder if Paul wouldn't like this better -- it turns out there's a recent German Blu-Ray of DRACULA that "reverses" Badham's desaturated color drain, while working from the same source elements. A Canadian colorist worked on it for Universal, and I have a copy that's supposed to be delivered from Germany today.

The colorist allegedly didn't like the Shout restoration, finding it too bright at times (I'll confess some of the color looked like it might've needed some correction at times) and obviously suffering from that waxy, soft section -- here's a sample of his efforts versus the Badham de-colored version, which frankly look VERY promising to me.



Someone on the Blu-ray.com board posted this, which is translated from a German site:

Upon request, Black Hill shared some interesting information about the production process: The “Cinema Edition” is not identical to the “Collector's Edition” from Shout! / Scream, which was released around a year earlier in the USA and which was based on a new 4K transfer of best-preserved 35mm film material. The "Cinema Edition" was developed completely independent in collaboration with the freelance Canadian filmmaker Julian Francis Adderley. On the back cover of the "Cinema Edition" Adderley is also named for color restoration. He also noted in particular that the 4K transfer of the US edition was technically inadequate, in particular that it looked too bright and too soft. It was therefore decided to approach the color restoration completely different, namely based on the HD master of the color-desaturated version. The original color scheme from the premiere year was restored by reversing the desaturation process, which also was carried out digitally by John Badham and his team, in painstaking detail and with the help of various color references - including the US trailer - as exactly as possible. Photos taken on the film set, which could still be purchased when the project was already in the final phase, turned out to be a particular stroke of luck. With their help, it was possible to noticeably upgrade the overall result once again by applying final corrections.

However, I couldn't find any clear confirmation of Adderley's statement that the 4K transfer of the US-edition might be too bright. On the other hand, individual comments about the softness, which he also noted, can be found. Those only partially attest a deficiency in image sharpness for about 20 minutes (starting from approx. 15 minutes into the film). This, however, hardly has a negative effect on the overall picture ratings. Unfortunately, a direct comparison between the two editions was not possible.

Which of the two editions ultimately delivers the more convincing result cannot be clearly determined solely from a few screenshots in reviews of the US edition, which incidentally do not reveal any immediate weaknesses. The comparison, which is of course interesting in principle, is less important at this point, because taken by itself, Black Hill's “Cinema Edition” is of such high quality that you can access it without hesitation.

There's very little info on this release but I picked up a couple of things from Germany and it was very inexpensive to add it to the order, so I'm interested in checking it out.

[Paul MacLean]

I wonder if Paul wouldn't like this better -- it turns out there's a recent German Blu-Ray of DRACULA that "reverses" Badham's desaturated color drain, while working from the same source elements. A Canadian colorist worked on it for Universal, and I have a copy that's supposed to be delivered from Germany today.

I must say I do prefer it to the splashier Shout restoration, but also to the more monochromatic Badham-sanctioned print. For me it strikes the right balance.

[Edmund Kattak]

I wonder if the credits in the film are in English.Not that I can't read German, it's just that I would buy if it's close to the original US theatrical experience as possibe. This does look better than the Shout restoration.

[AndyDursin]

I got my copy yesterday. It is literally the same master as the desaturated version (so it has more detail than the Shout release) with the added telecine adjustments. So it has English credits, same aspect ratio, etc.

I agree Ed, I prefer it, and it's good in motion too. It looks like the color on the early VHS and laserdisc transfers, which had a more "golden"/antique look. Mostly the color shift works, there are a couple of times the skin tones become reddish or slightly "off," but the brightness level looks more satisfying to me. The Shouts brightness was so jacked up the more I look at it, the more I wonder how accurate it is. Not to mention the technical issues and that one reel with the DNR that intermittently takes you out of the movie.

What it is, is a middle ground between the limp, unnatural Badhan desaturated version, and the Technicolor look of the Shout theatrical restoration. It's like you get the deeper blacks of the Badham "version" with a much more satisfying color level. If THIS was the adjustment he made back in 1991, I doubt most fans would've had a problem.

[AndyDursin]

BTW I ordered from JPC, reliable shipping and less right now than Amazon.de:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/movie/detail/- ... m/10274441



Region B locked FYI

[Edmund Kattak]

My first international order. With shipping it came out to $18.61. Amazon had it for $29.95 plus tac. Even though I don't have the region free board for my Oppo, I still have the means to play it. It's worth the chance.