And one other thing before I go to bed- you know, Gibson has accepted responsibility for his words, he has apologized, and he has taken steps to fix his problem with alcohol (I'm a former alcoholic, so I know what's it like to be dependent on booze to live). He has owned up for everything and is not trying to blow smoke up everyone's backside. We know he shouldn't have said any of those things, but the more I reflect on it the more I believe he's really penitent. Maybe I'm wrong, but his actions are totally in line with someone who is being sincere.
It'll be interesting to see who in the entertainment community sees the same thing and stands by him. I wonder if Oprah would really give him an outlet on her show (we know Barbara Walters won't). It will also be interesting to see who pontificates against him even in the face of what he's doing in accepting that responsibility. So far I haven't read many "he's doing the right thing" articles at all....just a bunch of people talking about how "hateful" Mel is.
I agree with Andy- it's a shame he handed that "stone" over to the people. They're throwing it at him pretty hard right now. I definitely hope for the best for him.
Mel Gibson Oprah countdown
-
Eric Paddon
- Posts: 9040
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:49 pm
And these critics of Gibson I note are the kind of people who will always quote the "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" line plenty of times to justify no condemnation of people who engage in unsavory conduct if they're still a person more to their liking for PC reasons, yet in ganging up on him even when he does apologize for his remarks they're only showing what hypocrites they are as far as I'm concerned.
-
AndyDursin
- Posts: 35775
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:45 pm
- Location: RI
I was talking with my pal Paul MacLean tonight and we both agree that to function in Hollywood, work with Richard Donner a handful of times, work with other Jews in the industry, I have a very hard time believing Mel Gibson is really, truly anti-semitic.It'll be interesting to see who in the entertainment community sees the same thing and stands by him. I wonder if Oprah would really give him an outlet on her show (we know Barbara Walters won't). It will also be interesting to see who pontificates against him even in the face of what he's doing in accepting that responsibility. So far I haven't read many "he's doing the right thing" articles at all....just a bunch of people talking about how "hateful" Mel is.
And not everything one says when you're drunk is reflective of your true nature. I'm sure Michael Karoly among others can tell us that, as well. (Bravo to you Michael).
-
Carlson2005
Eric Paddon wrote:I'm still waiting for Alec Baldwin's career to suffer for standing up on Conan O'Brien and demanding that people stone Rep. Henry Hyde and his family to death because he didn't like the fact that Hyde was chairman of the Clinton impeachment hearings.
And that wasn't something done under the influence, that was done in a public spotlight where he was allowed to get away with it.
What has offended me most about this Gibson controversy is how it has made some people (especially at another message board that shall remain nameless) suggest we should look at "Passion Of The Christ" in a new light because of this, which is so much rubbish. The greatness of this movie has nothing to do with what the director did some two years after the fact, it's what the film did in touching the audience who saw it, and frankly if I used a moral failing of a director as an occasion to reasses the work of every film they did previously, then I'm surprised no one has said that Woody Allen's films should now be seen in a new light because of his shenanigans.
But they were. Baldwin's antics even before the Conan incident (not broadcast but widely circulated nontheless) killed off his career as a leading man, while Allen rode through a veritable shitstorm post Husbands and Wives and never really regained many of his casual audience. And I'm certainly not looking at The Passion in a new light because of this - the anti-Semitism issue was widely debated at the time. This merely makes those people who gave him the benefit of the doubt think that they cut him too much slack.
not much left in this discussion, I just find the incident funny... what more embarrassing could have happened to him? Maybe get caught with a hooker or something as he always prays about his family and that stuff...
still, Im not surprised about his drinking problem as he really looks like he has that problem... he aged quite fast in the last couple years, which didn't seem that normal for such a once-handsome man...
anyway... I just stumbled over POTC... lol... does POTC2 mean now PASSION OF THE CHRIST 2 - DEAD MAN'S CHEST??? (even that fits in a way...)... weird...
please use PASSION as the short for Mel's movie...
still, Im not surprised about his drinking problem as he really looks like he has that problem... he aged quite fast in the last couple years, which didn't seem that normal for such a once-handsome man...
anyway... I just stumbled over POTC... lol... does POTC2 mean now PASSION OF THE CHRIST 2 - DEAD MAN'S CHEST??? (even that fits in a way...)... weird...
please use PASSION as the short for Mel's movie...
-
Carlson2005
Come on, admit it - you want to see Johnny Depp in The Passion 2. All that hotel room trashing was great research for throwing the moneylenders out of the temple!
Still, it's good to see Gibson has gone into rehab straight away. For all his bizarre beliefs, I've always rather liked the little feller.
Still, it's good to see Gibson has gone into rehab straight away. For all his bizarre beliefs, I've always rather liked the little feller.
-
AndyDursin
- Posts: 35775
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:45 pm
- Location: RI
Mel's apology:
MEL SAYS SORRY TO THE JEWS
Tue Aug 01 2006 11:10:45 ET
August 2, 2006 -- There is no excuse, nor should there be any tolerance, for anyone who thinks or expresses any kind of Anti-Semitic remark. I want to apologize specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said to a law enforcement officer the night I was arrested on a DUI charge.
I am a public person, and when I say something, either articulated and thought out, or blurted out in a moment of insanity, my words carry weight in the public arena. As a result, I must assume personal responsibility for my words and apologize directly to those who have been hurt and offended by those words.
The tenets of what I profess to believe necessitate that I exercise charity and tolerance as a way of life. Every human being is God’s child, and if I wish to honor my God I have to honor his children. But please know from my heart that I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot. Hatred of any kind goes against my faith.
I’m not just asking for forgiveness. I would like to take it one step further, and meet with leaders in the Jewish community, with whom I can have a one on one discussion to discern the appropriate path for healing.
I have begun an ongoing program of recovery and what I am now realizing is that I cannot do it alone. I am in the process of understanding where those vicious words came from during that drunken display, and I am asking the Jewish community, whom I have personally offended, to help me on my journey through recovery. Again, I am reaching out to the Jewish community for its help. I know there will be many in that community who will want nothing to do with me, and that would be understandable. But I pray that that door is not forever closed.
This is not about a film. Nor is it about artistic license. This is about real life and recognizing the consequences hurtful words can have. It’s about existing in harmony in a world that seems to have gone mad.
END
MEL SAYS SORRY TO THE JEWS
Tue Aug 01 2006 11:10:45 ET
August 2, 2006 -- There is no excuse, nor should there be any tolerance, for anyone who thinks or expresses any kind of Anti-Semitic remark. I want to apologize specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said to a law enforcement officer the night I was arrested on a DUI charge.
I am a public person, and when I say something, either articulated and thought out, or blurted out in a moment of insanity, my words carry weight in the public arena. As a result, I must assume personal responsibility for my words and apologize directly to those who have been hurt and offended by those words.
The tenets of what I profess to believe necessitate that I exercise charity and tolerance as a way of life. Every human being is God’s child, and if I wish to honor my God I have to honor his children. But please know from my heart that I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot. Hatred of any kind goes against my faith.
I’m not just asking for forgiveness. I would like to take it one step further, and meet with leaders in the Jewish community, with whom I can have a one on one discussion to discern the appropriate path for healing.
I have begun an ongoing program of recovery and what I am now realizing is that I cannot do it alone. I am in the process of understanding where those vicious words came from during that drunken display, and I am asking the Jewish community, whom I have personally offended, to help me on my journey through recovery. Again, I am reaching out to the Jewish community for its help. I know there will be many in that community who will want nothing to do with me, and that would be understandable. But I pray that that door is not forever closed.
This is not about a film. Nor is it about artistic license. This is about real life and recognizing the consequences hurtful words can have. It’s about existing in harmony in a world that seems to have gone mad.
END
-
Carlson2005
Well, it's not working so far - though you can understand why a network would drop a miniseries about the Holocaust from a producer who thinks the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world - hardly a selling point in sweeps week:
ABC Writes Off Gibson's Holocaust Miniseries
ABC on Monday canceled further development with Mel Gibson's production company of a planned TV miniseries about a Holocaust survivor, Flory A. Van Beek. The deal, with Gibson's Icon Films, was originally greenlit by the network two years ago following the success of Gibson's The Passion of the Christ. "Given that it's been nearly two years and we have yet to see the first draft of a script, we have decided to no longer pursue this project with Icon," an ABC spokeswoman said. No mention was made in the ABC announcement about Gibson's anti-Semitic outburst following his DUI arrest over the weekend. Earlier in the day, L.A. Weekly columnist Nikki Finke, in an interview with Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder of the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center, asked about the planned miniseries. Hier said that "it seems inconceivable" that the Flory project should be produced by Gibson. "That would be like getting somebody that has a past association with the KKK to do a film on African-Americans. The African-Americans would be up in arms. That's the way Jews feel. If you don't like the Jews, don't do a film about the central issue of modern Jewish history, the Holocaust." Gibson himself issued a new statement this morning, apologizing "specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said. ... Please know from my heart that I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot. Hatred of any kind goes against my faith." He offered to "meet with leaders in the Jewish community ... to discern the appropriate path for healing."
ABC Writes Off Gibson's Holocaust Miniseries
ABC on Monday canceled further development with Mel Gibson's production company of a planned TV miniseries about a Holocaust survivor, Flory A. Van Beek. The deal, with Gibson's Icon Films, was originally greenlit by the network two years ago following the success of Gibson's The Passion of the Christ. "Given that it's been nearly two years and we have yet to see the first draft of a script, we have decided to no longer pursue this project with Icon," an ABC spokeswoman said. No mention was made in the ABC announcement about Gibson's anti-Semitic outburst following his DUI arrest over the weekend. Earlier in the day, L.A. Weekly columnist Nikki Finke, in an interview with Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder of the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center, asked about the planned miniseries. Hier said that "it seems inconceivable" that the Flory project should be produced by Gibson. "That would be like getting somebody that has a past association with the KKK to do a film on African-Americans. The African-Americans would be up in arms. That's the way Jews feel. If you don't like the Jews, don't do a film about the central issue of modern Jewish history, the Holocaust." Gibson himself issued a new statement this morning, apologizing "specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said. ... Please know from my heart that I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot. Hatred of any kind goes against my faith." He offered to "meet with leaders in the Jewish community ... to discern the appropriate path for healing."
-
AndyDursin
- Posts: 35775
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:45 pm
- Location: RI
The fact that he's trying to reach out specifically to the people he offended and isn't sugarcoating it like a lot of people do in these types of PR-nightmare situations -- a la a Bill Clinton approach -- has to count for something. (Frankly I could care if Barbara Walters ever appears on television again, much less tells us she has no interest in seeing another one of his films!).romanD wrote:well... that blahblah from him sounds a bit like from a bigot in my opinion...
what else is he supposed to say? and of course he wouldnt do all this if he hadn't been caught...
sad, but also scary a bit...
well, seems like he shouldn't tackle any religious projects in the future... thank God!
Again if he was truly bigoted I can't imagine he could have gotten as far in Hollywood as he did. Doesn't make much sense to that argument.
I can understand the network dropping it too. On the other hand the reaction definitely seems to be turning the corner today, with a lot of talking heads on the morning and entertainment shows being impressed with the contents of his apology. There could be more of a reconciliation between Mel and the Jewish community than we all might have anticipated...but we'll see.Well, it's not working so far - though you can understand why a network would drop a miniseries about the Holocaust from a producer who thinks the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world - hardly a selling point in sweeps week:
If Bill CLinton were in this situation, he'd be defining terms, like...."what does 'bigot' mean?", or "what does "anti-Semitic" mean?", etc. Again, as I said before- I feel he is sincere and he is not making a smoke screen here.
Barabra Walters- she is insignificant and no one with an ounce of sense would care what she thought about anything. These people in the industry would back-stab anyone for money or to keep their careeers moving. And here's something else to think about- bigotry is wrong in speech and in action, but why is it "more wrong" than someone stabbing someone else in the back to make money? Why is it "more wrong" than one politcal party to sling hate remarks in the news and in commercials about the other political party? We live on a sliding scale of wrongs and that's part of the problem. People slinging stones here have done just as much "wrong" in their lives....do you know what I mean? In other words, I would argue that what Bill Clinton did is just as wrong as what Mel said. Anyway, something to think about.
And frankly, if someone is truly penitent and asks forgiveness, and the offended party doesn't forgive them, that says a lot about the offended party's character.
AND....if this is a sincere apology from Mel (and I believe it is), isn't it funny how our culture just stomps all over something real and would rather embrace something else that's less real?
Barabra Walters- she is insignificant and no one with an ounce of sense would care what she thought about anything. These people in the industry would back-stab anyone for money or to keep their careeers moving. And here's something else to think about- bigotry is wrong in speech and in action, but why is it "more wrong" than someone stabbing someone else in the back to make money? Why is it "more wrong" than one politcal party to sling hate remarks in the news and in commercials about the other political party? We live on a sliding scale of wrongs and that's part of the problem. People slinging stones here have done just as much "wrong" in their lives....do you know what I mean? In other words, I would argue that what Bill Clinton did is just as wrong as what Mel said. Anyway, something to think about.
And frankly, if someone is truly penitent and asks forgiveness, and the offended party doesn't forgive them, that says a lot about the offended party's character.
AND....if this is a sincere apology from Mel (and I believe it is), isn't it funny how our culture just stomps all over something real and would rather embrace something else that's less real?
-
Carlson2005
You know, I was waiting for Clinton to make an appearance here. 
From this side of the pond, it's one of those truly inexplicable moral over-reactions - guy has blowjob, lies to his wife, there's a move to impeach him. Whereas guy lies about WMDs, invades a neutral country, kills thousands, helps destabilise the Middle East, promotes terrorism and brings down a friendly government in the process, the guy gets re-elected. It's a weird set of priorities that makes sex the very worst thing you can lie about. Lie about wars, lie about corporate fraud, election procedure (regardless of what party you're for - both of 'em have done it in the past) no problem. Lie about your sex life, all of a sudden you're the lowest of the low.
I would say that America really desperately needs to get laid more, but I get the feeling that if they did, they'd all end up being impeached!
From this side of the pond, it's one of those truly inexplicable moral over-reactions - guy has blowjob, lies to his wife, there's a move to impeach him. Whereas guy lies about WMDs, invades a neutral country, kills thousands, helps destabilise the Middle East, promotes terrorism and brings down a friendly government in the process, the guy gets re-elected. It's a weird set of priorities that makes sex the very worst thing you can lie about. Lie about wars, lie about corporate fraud, election procedure (regardless of what party you're for - both of 'em have done it in the past) no problem. Lie about your sex life, all of a sudden you're the lowest of the low.I would say that America really desperately needs to get laid more, but I get the feeling that if they did, they'd all end up being impeached!
Well, what I'm basically saying is that wrong is wrong and there shouldn't be degrees (one thing shouldn't be "more wrong" or "more reprehensible" than another)- wrong is wrong. In other words, lying about WMD/killing thousands and lying to your wife and cheating on her should be equally wrong, in my opinion. Both result in destruction and healing. I used Clinton because he was in the post closest to my reply. I know that's not how our society views things, but that's just my opinion on all this. 
Just to clarify too- I meant "the need for healing" above (typed too fast), and I am speaking about a moral persepctive on these issues rather than a legal perspective.mkaroly wrote:Well, what I'm basically saying is that wrong is wrong and there shouldn't be degrees (one thing shouldn't be "more wrong" or "more reprehensible" than another)- wrong is wrong. In other words, lying about WMD/killing thousands and lying to your wife and cheating on her should be equally wrong, in my opinion. Both result in destruction and healing. I used Clinton because he was in the post closest to my reply. I know that's not how our society views things, but that's just my opinion on all this.
-
Paul MacLean
- Posts: 7539
- Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:26 pm
- Location: New York
Well, we're too tired because we spend all day swimming, surfing, skiing and enjoying the sunny weather while you guys are sat at home watching Emmerdale and The Bill 'cause its raining!:lol:Carlson2005 wrote:I would say that America really desperately needs to get laid more
Paul (who really does love the UK)