Watched 5 minutes. Felt the same:

I could not be less surprised. This doesn't exist to me just like George Lucas's awful "book sequel" never happened, either.

I hope it craters.

I was never really a fan of the original film, which is very "hit and miss" for me.

There were things about it I really liked (Davis, Kilmer, Whalley) the use of locations, the mountain fight (and "sled ride") and the action sequences in general.

And there were a lot of things I didn't like -- the repurposed Star Wars tropes (which were repurposed from The Hidden Fortress in the first place), Adrian Biddle's photography, the irritatingly "cute" reaction shots from the baby, the set designs, "trolls" that looked like apes, Bavmorda and Razelle engaging in a fist fight, etc.

On a side note, Lukas posted the classical...err..."influences" on Horner's Willow score. Which are kind of jaw dropping honestly. I get writing something close to the temp but these are outright lifts. Which also ties into how bored I think Horner was writing that score...just was not inspired. So he found inspiration elsewhere!



And here's another major theme from tbe movie ripped right out of another work.

Seriously he was on auto pilot writing that score IMO.

Horner's "lift" of the Bulgarian folk tune I can accept, even countenance -- classical composers often drew on folk melodies for use in their works.

As far as cribbing from the classics, in fairness, all film composers have "borrowed" from time-to-time.

That said, Horner did it a lot more often than other composers did. And Willow is among his more overt examples.

Here is "Escape from the Tavern" (and "Stealing the Enterprise" as well!)...

And Willow is among his more overt examples.

Indeed!

I understand a composer can "borrow" time to time, or write a homage, or adhere to a temp track (like Conti did with Tchaikovsky in his Right Stuff score), but when you take basically whole melodies without even changing notes -- and do it more than once within the same score for essentially its main thematic components -- to me that's a little much. I think "overt" is a charitable way of saying it. I mean, you don't have to have any classical training to pull that kind of theft off...or training of ANY kind

AndyDursin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:02 pm

And Willow is among his more overt examples.

Indeed!

I understand a composer can "borrow" time to time, or write a homage, or adhere to a temp track (like Conti did with Tchaikovsky in his Right Stuff score), but when you take basically whole melodies without even changing notes -- and do it more than once within the same score for essentially its main thematic components -- to me that's a little much. I think "overt" is a charitable way of saying it. I mean, you don't have to have any classical training to pull that kind of theft off...or training of ANY kind

As a big Horner fan, all I can do is laugh and roll my eyes because I can't deny any of it. We all know how he worked sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

Eric W. wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:34 am As a big Horner fan, all I can do is laugh and roll my eyes because I can't deny any of it. We all know how he worked sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

At the end of the day, yeah. You could almost say Horner was the "Tarantino" of film composers -- talented, but derivative. His "lifts" from older, obscure works annoy some people, are tolerable to other people (and just go over the heads of others).

But hey, if that doesn't bother you, enjoy!

Krull is still one of my all-time favorite scores. I also love Braveheart (even though it is very similar to Glory in places). On the other hand, some Horner scores -- like Willow -- are a little too derivative for my taste.

Sampled a few minutes and this show is flipping AWFUL. I can't imagine anyone that thinks this is a quality series on any level, it's not anything like the film but a cheap TV show using its name. And the rock songs that close the episodes? COOL MAN, just like the movie (LOL).

Disney+ on a ROLL with crap that's progressive bullshit.

The National Treasure movies were "awesome"...?

Awesome compared to this I'm sure.

AndyDursin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:57 pm Awesome compared to this I'm sure.

Oh, I'm sure you're right, but does anyone consider the National Treasure movies some sort of untouchable formative cinematic experience? It's like how people claimed the godawful Mummy movies with Brendan Fraser were "classics" getting "shat upon" when the godawful Tom Cruise Mummy came out.