I disagree on IV. To me, the humor comes at the wrong time in the final act of a three movie story arc and in the end finishes the process of undermining everything that was great about II that III started. The "message" IMO was in-your-face, plus the intrusion of an idea that no one used money in the future was a political subtext that undermined *everything* about the Trek universe beforehand. I can also remember groaning in disgust when I realized that Kirk was dumb enough to send Russian accented Chekov to the US Navy yard. And finally, I just think the failure to retain Horner's main theme also undermines the continuity of the film with what went before. In the past, when a different composer would do a sequel you still had the main theme of the first composer retained (like Demetrius And The Gladiators where Waxman still used Newman's themes from The Robe).

Interesting reading the dissent about IV, but we've had this discussion before. You guys are in the small minority there where the film didn't work for you.

My ranking of the original films:

1. II
2. IV
3. TMP
4. III
5. VI
6. V (though like I said, I'd rather watch V over VI if I had the choice)

and the TNG films --

1. First Contact
2. Generations
3. Insurrection
4. Nemesis (way last lol)

If I had to rank them all, I'd go --

1. II
2. IV
3. STAR TREK (09)
4. TMP
5. III
6. VI
7. First Contact
8. V
9. Generations
10. Insurrection
11. Nemesis

Mine slightly differs from yours Andy:

Original cast:

1. II
2. IV
3. VI
4. TMP
5. III
6. V

For Next Generation:

1. First Contact
2. Insurrection
3. Generations
4. Nemesis (horrible way for them to send off the TNG cast)

I'd have to think about a comprehensive list.

One thing that struck me about viewing the Trek movies was how full of crap the "odd/even" theory is...that all of the odd-numbered Trek movies are terrible, and all of the even-numbered ones are good. The only odd-numbered one that is genuinely bad is The Final Frontier. The Search For Spock isn't as great as the two films that bookend it, but it's solid, and The Motion Picture may be ponderous and overinflated, but it's also majestic and visually sensational (albiet emotionally and dramatically muted).

TMP is that, but just for the visuals and Jerry's score, it's a film I can revisit time and time again. Wise got the majesty of the film's scope, at least, dead on. It just needed more humor and heart, really...and the TV version was somewhat of an improvement with its added footage (some of it ended up in the "Director's Cut DVD," along with some reworked effects -- not all of which were improvements. It also cut some of the more entertainingly awkward moments from the film as well).

I'd be happy if they took the theatrical cut and put the added TV scenes back in there -- I can live without the remastered FX work and the cuts to the theatrical version.

AndyDursin wrote:I'd be happy if they took the theatrical cut and put the added TV scenes back in there -- I can live without the remastered FX work and the cuts to the theatrical version.

For me the DVD cut struck the right balance. It restored the good "TV" footage, but left-out the bad stuff (like the studio rafters, Kirk wearing two different space suits and Sulu's awkwardness with Ilia). I thought most of the new effects were an improvement too.

You'd think if Paramount is willing to spend the money to re-do every single TNG episode in HD, TMP would merit the same expenditure.

Eric Paddon wrote: And finally, I just think the failure to retain Horner's main theme also undermines the continuity of the film with what went before. In the past, when a different composer would do a sequel you still had the main theme of the first composer retained (like Demetrius And The Gladiators where Waxman still used Newman's themes from The Robe).

Rumour has it, Nimoy was unhappy with the score to Star Trek III, and asked Leonard Rosenman to score IV.

Paul MacLean wrote:And you gotta love this poster....

...to stop people leaving the theatre.

Glad to see that TMP is getting some respect in this thread. I have always liked this film the most of the original cast films (although the Spock/Kirk trilogy is probably more fun), even in the original version with Shatner's godawful "OHMYGOD" line reading, which Robert Wise thankfully deleted from his true cut of the film.

I remember watching the original series sporadically when it originally aired on NBC then really got into it with syndication and our local library acquiring 16mm prints that you could check out (used those a lot when I taught some Popular Culture courses years ago in NW Ohio). For me, the slower pace of the first feature worked because it really gave you a sense of traveling through space and just how big V'jer was supposed to be (as opposed to how easy it seemed that the Enterprise was able to travel to see "God" in V-it felt like that planet was a stone's throw away from Earth-blecch).

Having done a goodly amount of research on the film for a future book project (going through Robert Wise's papers on the film), that the film even made it to theaters at all is still amazing to me. Roddenberry appears to have been shunted aside not too long after production began, the script was being rewritten not just daily but SEVERAL TIMES A DAY, and actors would often be called to wardrobe, makeup and then just sit for days or even weeks before working. The stories of all the problems with the visual effects are legend-both practical and in post) and even though the opening sequence with the Klingons was in the original script and virtually all the subsequent drafts it was not shot until July of '79, almost 6 months after everything else. And, in what many consider the film's most controversial scene-Kirk's outside tour of the Enterprise, which has always been a favorite of mine if for no other reason than it gave Goldsmith a chance to just express musically what Kirk/fans felt about that ship-it was in every draft and was described exactly as Kirk returning to his "first and only love." If the scene drags for you, just do the following: close your eyes and let Goldsmith's music wash over you until it is over-works for me.

I have owned this film in many forms-the VHS expanded version, the LD of the theatrical version, the DVD of Wise's cut and I just recently purchased a Blu-Ray of the '79 cut, although it appears that Wise's cut is out on Blu by itself but I am checking into that as I write this.

Personally, I give TMP a good solid 8.5 for the Wise cut, and 7 for the theatrical version.

I have owned this film in many forms-the VHS expanded version, the LD of the theatrical version, the DVD of Wise's cut and I just recently purchased a Blu-Ray of the '79 cut, although it appears that Wise's cut is out on Blu by itself but I am checking into that as I write this.

Only the theatrical cut is on Blu-Ray Jeff.

They'd have to do some clean-up work to the special effects for the Wise Director's Cut DVD since they weren't produced in 1080p, which was shortsighted on Paramount's part back at the time it was produced.

Jedbu wrote:If the scene drags for you, just do the following: close your eyes and let Goldsmith's music wash over you until it is over-works for me.

I never had a problem with the "Enterprise inspection" scene either, tho I've often thought the studio could have saved some screen time by running the opening titles against that sequence, placing the Vulcan scene a little later, and cutting the whole Commander Sonak and transporter malfunction footage altogether.

I started watching Cherry 2000 last night, but turned it off after about half an hour, having found it a very tedious, derivative and unoriginal film (both visually and in terms of story). It's remarkable that this film was was made five years after its two most obvious narrative influences -- Blade Runner and The Road Warrior -- yet the visual style of Cherry 2000 looks more like something out of an episode of The Six Million Dollar Man.

Beyond that, Melanie Griffith (cute as she is, in her red punk haircut) is unutterably awful, and delivers her lines with all the passion of a telephone operator.

Basil Poledouris' score however is one of his best, and the film's one saving grace, though it is poorly mixed, and moreover contains a lot more drum machine effects than it does on the CD (he certainly made the right call dialing most them down when re-mixing the album).

Who knows, maybe the film turns into a minor masterpiece after 40 minutes, but I didn't have the patience to wait and find out.

John Johnson wrote:

Eric Paddon wrote: And finally, I just think the failure to retain Horner's main theme also undermines the continuity of the film with what went before. In the past, when a different composer would do a sequel you still had the main theme of the first composer retained (like Demetrius And The Gladiators where Waxman still used Newman's themes from The Robe).

Rumour has it, Nimoy was unhappy with the score to Star Trek III, and asked Leonard Rosenman to score IV.

I may be wrong but I don't believe that's the case. Nimoy and Rosenman were friends and he even wanted Rosenman to score III but was vetoed by the studio. Once III established Nimoy as a director, he had the clout to go with Rosenman on IV. I don't think it had much to do with him disliking Horner, more that he was friends with Rosenman and wanted to work with him (at least that's according to the FSM CD notes and interviews)

^^I think Nimoy says as much on the documentaries/commentaries on the DVDs as well.