AndyDursin wrote:

I'm honestly not sure if it's a remake or just an odd attempt to reboot the series in the way we discussed last year - essentially using the older characters to bookend Abrams' introduction of the new young cast.

Well of course it's that also. But I don't think you need to even read a rumor site to see that this appears to be a very clear, if not outright obvious, reworking of STAR WARS '77. Instead of Luke, you have this girl, also on a desert planet, also thinking she's living a lonely existence and "doesn't matter in the galaxy", going on a quest adventure to save the universe. Probably (likely?) finding out she's from a more important line of lineage than her modest means suggest (is she "_____'s daughter"?). Instead of Obi-Wan, we'll have Luke filling that role, plus Han being the "sacrificial lamb" that serves as the motivation for the young heroes to take over. That's how it's looked and this latest trailer did little to dispel my feelings. Obviously the old cast is there to "pass the torch", because Ford isn't even signed (allegedly) for another film, meaning he's toast before this one is over.

I dunno, maybe it'll all be wrong -- I keep thinking Luke's absence from any of these trailers is serving some larger purpose (is he the real bad guy? There would be bricks tossed at the screen if that turned out to be the case), but otherwise, it looks like a basic reconfiguration of the original STAR WARS. Just with white male(s) being the bad guys, and the Ridley and Boyega being the leads -- in keeping with today's (and Disney's) "socially progressive" slant.

As for Abrams -- we are on the same page there David. All these people trashing Lucas don't seem to acknowledge Abrams' slender filmography (he's only directed four other films -- two STAR TREKs, the third MISSION IMPOSSIBLE and the mediocre SUPER is almost entirely comprised of movies that mimicked/recycled Spielberg or someone else's property. He's never made an AMERICAN GRAFFITI or produced an original property of his own -- and yet THIS is the guy all the fanboys are waiving their arms for as if he's the savior of the franchise?

This is the same guy who made STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS -- a movie far worse than ANY of the Lucas prequels.

I'm with you.

That really just pops the balloon, doesn't it?

Still doing recording sessions? My lord, are they trying to make this John Williams' final score??

Interview with Abrams on wired.com...

http://www.wired.com/2015/11/star-wars- ... w/#slide-1

This is a reassuring quote from that interview!

"the fact is I remember starting to shoot Super 8 and Star Trek Into Darkness and feeling like I hadn’t really solved some fundamental story problems."

I thought it was a good interview..loved his comments on John Williams calling him "baby"!

AndyDursin wrote:This is a reassuring quote from that interview!

"the fact is I remember starting to shoot Super 8 and Star Trek Into Darkness and feeling like I hadn’t really solved some fundamental story problems."

Yeah, that remark popped-out at me too. Can't say I disagree. In fairness directors of "ten pole" movies are often working against ruthless deadlines, and sometimes aren't given sufficient time to perfect the script (Pirates of the Caribbean III comes to mind!). Hopefully his enthusiasm about the SW script is a good sign.

The very late locking of the picture this week is sadly yet another indication that the movie was rushed to make this release date.

I'm also confused by Abrams' comments about Super 8 and the Trek movies he inflicted. He was also the producer of those movies. At any time, he could have stepped back and said "Guys, these stories aren't worked out yet. Let's take some time and figure out what story we're telling before we start production." The fact that he chose not to do that and continued into production with scripts he now says he doubted should be a very large warning flag here.

That said, he may well have made a nice movie here. I'll wait to see the reactions before I spend any coin on it. Currently overloaded with other materials I need to get through before the end of the year.

DavidBanner wrote:
I'm also confused by Abrams' comments about Super 8 and the Trek movies he inflicted. He was also the producer of those movies. At any time, he could have stepped back and said "Guys, these stories aren't worked out yet. Let's take some time and figure out what story we're telling before we start production."

Once the ball gets rolling on a movie -- especially a huge franchise picture where they stake out a claim on a particular summer or holiday weekend a year or more in advance -- it's a very costly proposition to postpone the release date to hammer out all of the flaws in the screenplay. That's why incoherent movies like Quantum Of Solace make it to theaters...there was a writer's strike on, they had a release date to make, and damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

And Abrams was originally shooting for a May release date, like all of the other Star Wars films, so pushing it back six months is already pretty generous. Add to that Harrison Ford injuring himself on the set barely weeks into production, and you've got a movie that's already weathered a lot. I'd rather give Abrams the benefit of the doubt until I'm given reason to think otherwise. I've enjoyed his movies to date (yes, even Into Darkness), and you've got to feel for the guy, making one of those movies that's gonna get parsed over frame-by-frame by prequel-stung fanboys who are going to be wildly dissatisfied unless this is as good or better than Empire Strikes Back. Personally, I liked the prequels well enough (Attack Of The Clones not so much), and if this turns out to be a three-star experience, I would count that as satisfactory. Anyone going into this expecting it to be some transcendental experience are bound to come away disappointed. All I'm expecting is a movie that's a well-polished wallow in 80's nostalgia, no more, no less. I'm not going to allow myself to get pulled into the same Phantom Menace levels of hype.

I do consider myself a "fanboy" as STAR WARS is something I grew up on all my life. I guess, however, I've also grown up because I didn't feel a tinge of emotion watching these trailers that had fanboys in tears all summer. (I dunno, maybe that's just me being cynical, or having a son of my own, and my priorities have changed). It felt calculated to generate a response, calculated in every way...and transparent in its marketing.

At any rate, the majority of fanboys have convinced themselves George Lucas is the root of all Star Wars ills and JJ is their savior. Despite the fact that the guy has never turned out one truly visionary product of his own, ever, and has regurgitated someone else's franchises for most of his cinematic output. Has JJ ever made a film a tenth as good as AMERICAN GRAFFITI, to say nothing of STAR WARS itself? "Kids today" as well as the aging fanboys are so illiterate with their knowledge of film and cinema, they aren't even aware of what Lucas has done to change the way we watch movies especially with home theaters...to them, he's just the village idiot who raped their childhoods with Jar Jar. (Funny thing is I don't remember hearing any of these complaints with REVENGE OF THE SITH, which made a fortune and got almost universally good reviews).

If FORCE AWAKENS is a 3 star movie, sure, I'd take it, but are they going to deserve a lot of credit for that? This movie exists solely for one reason: so the Disney company can profit, add to their theme park dollars, and start a franchise to sell toys and figures and games to kids for the next several decades. It exists because Disney has to justify their purchase. There's no story that NEEDS to be told with this franchise. There's really no reason to keep the Skywalker saga going. I'd have more respect for this film if it really started with a clean slate, which it's not going to, and that's a mistake.

For me, the important thing is that this film isn't being borne out of the artist/creator saying, "I've got a story to tell here." All films are made for money, most of the time, but if there isn't an honest concept or idea at the root of the creative process, and it's a purely commercial play (which this seems very, very much to be, based on the fact that the release date came before the script), then it's something that will likely be soulless and empty. This isn't a George Lucas movie -- this is a product being made by a corporation, buying a property and then hiring all the talent they can amass to turn out a film that's likely to be:

1. Very, very safe
2. Very, very familiar
3. Entertaining
4. Anything but "visionary"

Which would be, at this point, like most of their Marvel movies. None of them are taking any chances, and neither will this. It's going to be competently made across the board, all to maximize box-office intake here and around the world. Inoffensive, made with first class talent...but kind of flavorless and empty. Once we get to these films being scored by the likes of Desplat and Giacchino, that feeling is only going to increase.

In time, what's going to happen is that most of these people jazzed to see a Star Wars movie EVERY SINGLE YEAR FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES will see an increasingly marginalized Star Wars as there's going to be no singular point of view going forward. Like or dislike Lucas, the series was his baby and his point of view dominated all of those films. With him gone, Disney can just play it safe and reap the rewards that he decided he didn't want decades ago by exploiting the property across every platform and every sequel that Lucas never wanted to make for infinity and beyond.

Thought I'd follow up that rant (apologies everyone with this thought: why didn't Lucas just retain ownership of Star Wars, hire Kathleen Kennedy himself to oversee these films, let them hire Abrams (or whoever) and keep the property in-house? I realize he wanted to cash in his chips and make money for his kids, but I will be surprised if there isn't some part of Lucas that isn't going to regret the decision once these films start coming at us, one after another, for years to come and dilute what was his own distinct voice. At least that way he could've retained some form of control while keeping all the profits from merch and the like.

In my mind, it's sad. Here's one of the maverick 70s filmmakers, a fiercely independent pioneer, selling out and giving away his entire creative legacy to the largest corporation and purveyor of entertainment product on the planet. He's already worried about what Disney is going to do to "The Force" and what it means? Then why sell out to begin with!! I mean, just look at this interview with CBS this morning, where he's likely lamenting the fact they didn't want his stories.

http://news.yahoo.com/disney-threw-out- ... 30662.html

AndyDursin wrote: In time, what's going to happen is that most of these people jazzed to see a Star Wars movie EVERY SINGLE YEAR FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES will see an increasingly marginalized Star Wars as there's going to be no singular point of view going forward.

Maybe if Disney had the balls to finally move the franchise beyond the Skywalker clan and delve into other corners of the galaxy and completely new characters instead of dangling the familiar characters and actors we grew up with in front of aging fans like a carrot ("Hey, here are the beloved characters you all complained about not being in the prequels! They're older and fatter, but hey...!"), I'd be enthused about a new Star Wars film every year, but that's not going to happen until EVERY actor from the OT has died, and even then, I'm sure that advances in mocap technology will allow many of them to live on for decades afterwards. I mean, people complained about how the prequels shoved too many fanservice callbacks to the OT (Anakin made Threepio as a kid, Boba Fett was the template for every clone trooper, etc.), and yet now, it seems like The Force Awakens is making the same mistakes...another villain with a masked face, another planet-destroying superweapon, another protagonist who lives on a desert planet and dreams of something more (the only difference being a gender switch), etc. Hell, people were complaining about this with Return Of The Jedi (another Death Star?!). I'll be entertained if Force Awakens is a good, solid movie, but I think the same a decade from now after ten movies?

I'd rather see a fresh cinematic experience than 10 sequels of any "franchise" over the next 10 years. Nobody is going to sit through THE FORCE AWAKENS and be impacted the way viewers were in 1977 when STAR WARS was released and blew people away. But, these days, nobody will take the chance, so we're getting remakes up the wazoo and you know what? This is why movie attendance is dropping like a stone. There's nothing new. As good as this movie might be, we've already SEEN it. There might be some twist, or whatever, but the bottom line is -- it's the same o'l thing.

The most telling line in that Lucas interview is that Disney didn't want Lucas' conceptualized premises, but rather wanted to make a "movie for the fans." Which means, they're going to give them "what they want" which will be a regurgitation of what you've already seen. Nothing new.

What irritates me about Lucas is that he is a whiner. YOU were the one who sold the rights away; YOU have been a part of the industry for how many years now? YOU know how things work...quit whining and complaining about their not liking your stories, etc. YOU had to know what YOU were doing when YOU sold the rights...to Disney of all corporations. What did YOU think they were going to do with it? As far as I am concerned, he has no complaint to register. Just keep your mouth shut and enjoy your money George!

This morning, oddly enough, I was thinking about the title, "The Force Awakens" - unless the Force "died" in this story line, wasn't the Force already "awakened" with Luke? Or does it refer to the regrowth of the Jedi in general though Luke and Leia's offspring? Or something? I kind of don't get the title of the movie, but I guess that's the reason to see the movie.

The whole concept of this movie -- that the empire didn't die out, the rebels have been hanging around presumably because they have all their tech still and such -- is going to require a major suspension of disbelief even for a fantasy like this. I worry because Abrams is writing it, and directing it, but as long as Luke isn't the bad guy, I'll be OK as my expectations are low. Same for the score. I just hope it's better than the pedestrian score Williams wrote for KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL which I listened to once and then filed away, never to be heard again.