NO TIME TO DIE [Bond 25] - SPOILER Talk

[John Johnson]

UK release date 20th December.

US release date 21st December.

[Paul MacLean]

That's $29.99 I'll be saving!

[AndyDursin]

And he brags about it like he did something brilliant!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/daniel-craig ... 23186.html

Boyle walked in, heard his pitch, said WTF and left. Have a lot of respect for him for that.

[Paul MacLean]

And he brags about it like he did something brilliant!

Remember, Craig is also the guy also said "It's time James Bond had a love scene with a man."

[AndyDursin]

It's like another misguided, diva-driven star vehicle, LEONARD PART VI, except for the part where Bill Cosby warned everyone to stay away

[mkaroly]

Along with THE BATMAN, I finally watched NO TIME TO DIE. My only question after the film ended was, "Was this ending really necessary?" I have spoken of my enjoyment of the Daniel Craig era - I think his films on the whole are very good, and SKYFALL is one of the most moving Bond films I have ever seen (the other being OHMSS). I am fine with a character growing and developing, and I am fine with exploring new territory for a character. But did ya have to kill Bond in order for the actual person playing Bond to say goodbye to the series? If so, how arrogant and selfish of Craig to do this...lol...he is a loon. Having said that, at least Bond sacrificed himself for his family (and ultimately for the world I suppose) - they could have come up with an ending where Bond gets shot by some random bullet and dies a senseless death (which would have been hostile). The action set pieces were pretty cool, and I have to hand it to Hans Zimmer - his score sounded pretty classic. I don't know if they specifically used You Only Live Twice as source material for Safin's garden, but in the aforementioned book Blofeld hides away in a castle protected by poisonous plants. I couldn't get that out of my mind while watching the final sequences of the film.

Bottom line is that I have mixed feelings about this film - it could have had a much better ending than it did. Unfortunately BB and MW gave the keys of the kingdom to Craig, so ultimately I hold those two responsible! Lol...do you hate your property so much that you felt it necessary to kill 007 off? I don't understand the obsession this current generation has with killing off the film heroes of the previous generation. Whatever man...

[Eric W.]

Lots of mixed feelings here, too. It's a "good movie" for what it is at face value but... (insert all the talking points everyone here has already said.)

[Monterey Jack]

I am fine with a character growing and developing, and I am fine with exploring new territory for a character. But did ya have to kill Bond in order for the actual person playing Bond to say goodbye to the series? If so, how arrogant and selfish of Craig to do this...

Lol...do you hate your property so much that you felt it necessary to kill 007 off? I don't understand the obsession this current generation has with killing off the film heroes of the previous generation. Whatever man...

^This. The previous FIVE 007 actors did not feel the compulsion to kill off the character just because they would no longer be playing him. It's an incredibly selfish move, akin to the villain in a movie saying the line "I'm takin' you with me...!" just before he meets his maker. So what's on tap for the next movie in the series...a complete start-from-the-beginning reboot AGAIN?! They obviously can't just recast the lead and continue where the Craig run left off. This leads me to envision a depressing pattern going forth, each new Bond actor treating his tenure in the role as a "miniseries" with a defined beginning, middle and end. This is not what kept the franchise viable for the four decades it existed prior to Craig taking residence...and, eventually, becoming the franchise's strict landlord.

A Bond movie used to promise that anyone, regardless if the new movie was their first time watching a Bond movie or the fifteenth, would be able to pick it up and get a satisfying, self-contained adventure. Thirty years from now, could you imagine coming across No Time To Die randomly on TBS - not having seen any of the previous Craig films - and being able to follow it in the slightest? That kind of "lazy Sunday afternoon" viewing is kind of what built the Bond brand starting in the 70s and 80s, the kind of movies you discovered on TV (probably watching it with your Dad, who would get to introduce you to the Bond actor he grew up on before taking you to see your first Bond movie on the big screen with the current guy). Now you have to watch each and every Craig film in chronological order in order to make any of the dramatic and emotional beats land correctly, and it's a terrible way to run a franchise, especially one where the whole "Blofeld is the secret mastermind behind it all" thing was only grafted on starting with Spectre, which badly retconned the previous movie in an attempt to make it seem like it was just a building block in a larger story.

[AndyDursin]

Great points MJ. One thing I read recently was that while Danny Boyle walked off the movie when he learned Craig wanted to "blow up Bond," it was actually Boyle's idea to give Bond a child. So if you really did like the "character development" Boyle gets credit for that...but on the same hand, I'm with you, the beauty of this series was that for DECADES you can jump into a Bond movie and watch a self-contained story. Its one of the pleasures of the series, the ability to pick out a film and watch a movie from its specific time and place, but one that doesn't require 12 previous films to watch in order to enjoy.

It's one of the reasons why the Craig movies will end up like the dozens upon dozens of Marvel films that will be impossible for anyone to follow in the future. And there's nothing groundbreaking about making interconnected films like these either -- episodic TV functions in exactly the same way. Difference as I've said repeatedly is Disney is just doing it on the big-screen as opposed to television with the "Marvel universe."

[Paul MacLean]

Now you have to watch each and every Craig film in chronological order in order to make any of the dramatic and emotional beats land correctly, and it's a terrible way to run a franchise, especially one where the whole "Blofeld is the secret mastermind behind it all" thing was only grafted on starting with Spectre, which badly retconned the previous movie in an attempt to make it seem like it was just a building block in a larger story.

Fortunately, the two best (nay, only good) Craig movies -- Casino Royale and Skyfall -- still work as standalone entities.

As far as the Craig era overall, what also irks me is how the ending of Skyfall is clearly setting-up a return to the traditional Bond form -- with Ralph Fiennes as the new "M", and Moneypenny now M's secretary. But what do they do instead? Reduce the films to a soapy "miniseries" about Bond's inability to get over a old flame (whereas the book "Casino Royale" ends with Bond saying "The bitch is dead" and that's, literally, the end of the story).

Sorry, James Bond dies in his sleep, sometime in his 70s -- married, retired and sitting in an easy chair in his house overlooking Esthwaite Water.

[Monterey Jack]

Fortunately, the two best (nay, only good) Craig movies -- Casino Royale and Skyfall -- still work as standalone entities.

This is how a lot of Bond fans will consume the Craig films in the decades to come...just pretend that Casino Royale and Skyfall are the only two entries. The other three will only be watched by obsessive fans who do "deep dives" of each and every Bond film, much like people watch Never Say Never Again as the "off-brand" Bond film.

[Monterey Jack]

...but on the same hand, I'm with you, the beauty of this series was that for DECADES you can jump into a Bond movie and watch a self-contained story. Its one of the pleasures of the series, the ability to pick out a film and watch a movie from its specific time and place, but one that doesn't require 12 previous films to watch in order to enjoy.

Imagine if you had to remember specific plot points from Live & Let Die to understand the plot of Octopussy (released a decade later). It would have just deflated that experience.

[Paul MacLean]

As much as I crapped on his hire, he did a more than respectable job here. And the "Cuba Chase" may be the best use of the Bond theme within an action cue in many years, certainly since a couple of Arnold's best efforts ("Backseat Driver") back in the Brosnan era.

Bumping this thread up -- as I just learned that "Cuba Chase" and several other cues were actually written by Steve Mazzaro. Scroll down to hear this and the other cues he wrote for No Time to Die...

https://www.stevemazzaro.com/listen

[AndyDursin]

Well that would make sense then!!