AVATAR Thread: POCAHONTAS in Space!

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AndyDursin
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#61 Post by AndyDursin »

Paul MacLean wrote:
AndyDursin wrote:I will take Michelle Rodriguez in a tank-top over any CGI'd blue-skinned female creature any day. :)
Unfortunately she won't take you, me or any other guy (unless he looks like Kristanna Løken!)...
Aaah, Loken is one of my favorites as well. That "relationship" (or whatever it was) ended a while ago. Loken has been married since 2008 -- to a guy.

Either way, in a movie populated with blue-skinned CGI creatures it was just nice to look at a real woman! 8)

mkaroly
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#62 Post by mkaroly »

Andy, thanks for your review. I was afraid that the movie would be difficult for me to sit through, and your review sold me on the fact that I am not missing anything by passing this film by. And as far as the political subtext, I'm really sick and tired of hearing the same stuff from filmmakers over and over again. It's a shame. Sounds like Cameron's weaknesses are exposed with this film.

Eric W.
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#63 Post by Eric W. »

AndyDursin wrote:Unbelievably cliched and trite story + lack of character development + heavy-handed political sermonizing = Cameron's weakest film, and more junk food for the TRANSFORMERS crowd.

Watchable but disappointing, I was never once emotionally engaged by this film. And I was shocked at how simplistic it was on every level. The creatures are fascinating and interesting, but the dialogue and story have been ripped out of dozens of other films. The story has major gaps which aren't explained, the characters are never developed, and one cliche after another is paraded out as if it's the first time you've ever seen it. Maybe if you're 13 years old it works (maybe that's the point), but I really was just detached from the whole experience and very disappointed.

And I guess it's ironic -- here I am praising Horner's music for the last few years and he writes a real disappointment with this score. The main theme is GLORY with a note changed. There are wailing female vocalists, "ethnic" music that sounds cobbled out of THE NEW WORLD and of course, ALIENS and KHAN orchestral stabs. I guess he must not have been inspired by the film because this is as lazy a score I've heard from him in years, regrettably.

The 3D was good but nothing extraordinary. A fellow movie-goer stopped to ask my friend and I what we thought of the 3D when the credits rolled, and he said "what did you guys think? Pretty underwhelming. I was expecting more" and I totally agreed.

As far as the politics go, Al Gore and other tree-huggers will be thrilled. Cameron goes to great lengths to establish that white American males are the galaxy's greatest problem (remember the military diversity he displayed in ALIENS? It ain't here). I know this shouldn't bother me, but it does -- does EVERY bad guy in this movie have to be a caucasian male? Seriously, it's unbelievable. There are dozens and dozens of "bad" soldiers and every single one of them is a white American male...no wonder why the film has drawn raves from European critics.

At this point I am guessing the real reason we haven't seen TRUE LIES on video isn't because Fox doesn't want to release it, but because Cameron is ashamed of it. After sitting through this laughable social-eco treatise (there is a tree of life for crying out loud) I am willing to wager that's the reason.
Disappointed but not surprised by any of this except I was hoping Horner would come out swinging hard for this.

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AndyDursin
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#64 Post by AndyDursin »

Horner's score is as disappointing as the movie, unfortunately. One of his weakest efforts in years...

What's particularly interesting about AVATAR is when you compare it to DISTRICT 9. There's a sci-fi film that's derivative in its own way, but has ideas, interesting characters, and sees things in shades of gray. Everything in Cameron's movie is like a comic book, the "evil white men", the beautiful and virtuous "tree people" -- it's really sad. I sat through DISTRICT 9 today and was spellbound by it in comparison to AVATAR, basically it had everything Cameron's movie lacked -- and was made for a fraction of the budget.

What I also can't believe are some of the rave reviews the movie is getting. I felt nothing at all watching this film -- I was never moved, never engaged by it at all. And the 3-D was a disappointment also...after a while I forgot I was even watching 3-D. A lot of scenes looked totally flat as well with only foreground/backgrounds given a three-dimensional appearance. Reminded me of looking at an old Viewmaster when I was a kid.

Eric W.
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#65 Post by Eric W. »

AndyDursin wrote:Horner's score is as disappointing as the movie, unfortunately. One of his weakest efforts in years...

What's particularly interesting about AVATAR is when you compare it to DISTRICT 9. There's a sci-fi film that's derivative in its own way, but has ideas, interesting characters, and sees things in shades of gray. Everything in Cameron's movie is like a comic book, the "evil white men", the beautiful and virtuous "tree people" -- it's really sad. I sat through DISTRICT 9 today and was spellbound by it in comparison to AVATAR, basically it had everything Cameron's movie lacked -- and was made for a fraction of the budget.

What I also can't believe are some of the rave reviews the movie is getting. I felt nothing at all watching this film -- I was never moved, never engaged by it at all. And the 3-D was a disappointment also...after a while I forgot I was even watching 3-D. A lot of scenes looked totally flat as well with only foreground/backgrounds given a three-dimensional appearance. Reminded me of looking at an old Viewmaster when I was a kid.
All of this is really unfortunate.

The disappointment in 3D doesn't surprise me in the least. They're a minimum of 5 years away, at best, (closer to 10 years probably) from making it where maybe we can finally get past glasses and other funky accessories and when I'll start to take it seriously.

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#66 Post by AndyDursin »

My review is up (will be on the front page and at FSM on Monday) --

http://www.andyfilm.com/12-29-09.html

I was going to take a bit of time off but I thought the opportunity to compare/contrast AVATAR and DISTRICT 9 was something that was worth the extra effort.

Eric W.
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#67 Post by Eric W. »

AndyDursin wrote:My review is up (will be on the front page and at FSM on Monday) --

http://www.andyfilm.com/12-29-09.html

I was going to take a bit of time off but I thought the opportunity to compare/contrast AVATAR and DISTRICT 9 was something that was worth the extra effort.
Excellent review. That simply makes me look more forward to seeing District 9 here pretty soon (I think someone got it for me for Christmas) and more than confirms every last concern I ever had about Avatar going into it.

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#68 Post by John Johnson »

LOS ANGELES - James Cameron's science-fiction epic "Avatar" had another stellar weekend with $68.3 million domestically, shooting past $1 billion worldwide, only the fifth movie ever to hit that mark.

No. 1 for the third-straight weekend, 20th Century Fox's "Avatar" raised its domestic total to $352.1 million after just 17 days. The film added $133 million overseas to lift its international haul to $670 million, for a worldwide gross of $1.02 billion.

"Avatar" opened two weekends earlier with $77 million, a strong start but far below dozens of other blockbusters that debuted as high as $158 million. But business for other blockbusters usually tumbles in following weekends, while "Avatar" revenues barely dropped over the busy Christmas and New Year's weekends.

"It's like a runaway freight train. It just keeps doing business," said Fox distribution executive Bert Livingston. "Here's what's happening: I think everybody has to see `Avatar' once. Even people who don't normally go to the movies, they've heard about it and are saying, `I have to see it.' Then there's those people seeing it multiple times."

"Avatar" was Cameron's first film since 1997's "Titanic," the biggest modern blockbuster with $1.8 billion worldwide.

Cameron now is the only filmmaker to direct two movies that have topped $1 billion. Along with "Titanic," the others are "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" at $1.13 billion, "Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest" at $1.06 billion and "The Dark Knight" at a fraction over $1 billion, according to box-office tracker Hollywood.com.

With "Avatar" closing in on No. 2 film "The Return of the King," Cameron is in striking distance of having the two top-grossing movies globally.

"Avatar" has had a price advantage over those other billion-dollar movies. About 75 percent of its domestic business has come from theaters showing it in digital 3-D presentation, those tickets typically costing a few dollars more than admissions for the 2-D version.

Finishing at No. 2 for the weekend was Robert Downey Jr.'s crime caper "Sherlock Holmes" with $38.4 million. The Warner Bros. film lifted its domestic total to $140.7 million after 10 days in theaters.

In third place was 20th Century Fox's family tale "Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel" with $36.6 million. It raised its 10-day total to $157.3 million.

The top-three movies, along with solid holdovers that included Universal's "It's Complicated" at No. 4 with $18.7 million, steered Hollywood to a big start to 2010 after a year of record revenue.

Hollywood finished 2009 with $10.6 billion domestically, easily surpassing the previous record of $9.7 billion in 2007, according to Hollywood.com.

Factoring in today's higher admission prices, the year was strong but not a modern record-breaker for number of tickets sold. According to Hollywood.com, domestic admissions came in at 1.42 billion in 2009, the most in the last five years, though well below the modern record of 1.6 billion in 2002.

In Hollywood's glory years of the 1930s and '40s, before television eroded the movie audience, estimated movie attendance ran as high as 4 billion some years.

Studios began 2010 with a headstart over last year. Overall revenues came in at $230 million, up 50 percent from New Year's weekend in 2009, when "Marley & Me" was No. 1 with $24.3 million.

Like "Titanic" 12 years ago, "Avatar" has fairly clear sailing now that the holidays are over. Hollywood is entering a slow season, when fewer big movies arrive and competition is lighter.

"Titanic" lingered as the No. 1 film for months leading up to the Academy Awards, where it won 11 Oscars, including best picture and director.

"Avatar" also proved a critical favorite with strong Oscar potential. Cameron broke new ground in combining live-action, digitally-enhanced performances, visual effects and 3-D presentation to immerse viewers in his futuristic tale of humans and aliens on a distant moon.

"Leave it to James Cameron to do this. To not only set the technical world on fire, the visual world on fire, but also the box-office world on fire 12 years after `Titanic,'" said Paul Dergarabedian, box-office analyst for Hollywood.com.

Estimated ticket sales for Friday through Sunday at U.S. and Canadian theaters, according to Hollywood.com. Final figures will be released Monday.

1. "Avatar," $68.3 million.

2. "Sherlock Holmes," $38.4 million.

3. "Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel," $36.6 million.

4. "It's Complicated," $18.7 million.

5. "The Blind Side," $12.7 million.

6. "Up in the Air," $11.4 million.

7. "The Princess and the Frog," $10 million.

8. "Did You Hear About the Morgans?", $5.2 million.

9. "Nine," $4.3 million.

10. "Invictus," $4.1 million.

___

On the Net:

http://www.hollywood.com/boxoffice

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.ap. ... rldwide-ap
London. Greatest City in the world.

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AndyDursin
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#69 Post by AndyDursin »

Unsurprising it's doing so well. A shame because it's such a disappointment outside the visuals.

Alas, its performance ensures we will be seeing more spectacles favoring special effects over story and characters.

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Paul MacLean
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#70 Post by Paul MacLean »

Here's a brief opinion piece about the film, from the blog of screenwriter & novelist Steven Barnes (who also teaches writing).

I haven't seen the film, so I can neither espouse nor contest his views, but I thought what he had to say was interesting.

http://darkush.blogspot.com/

MONDAY, JANUARY 04, 2010
The Billion Dollar Man

Avatar has crossed the billion dollar mark, worldwide, making it the 4th highest grossing worldwide film of all time, and #17 domestically. Yes, Cameron is King of the World.

I saw it again yesterday, in 2-D, and actually liked it better the second time. The images "pop" amazingly, and make me wonder if the familiarity of the story isn't part of the point. Does anyone think that it would be making MORE money if the story was startlingly original and the beats weren't telegraphed? I mean, this story has been done countless times...but as I said, that may be part of the point. The images Cameron wanted to create were so remarkable, that it is possible he wanted a very simple, direct, racial-memory kind of story (One of Us becomes one of Them. Within the "Civilized" man is the nobel savage. Etc.) so that we would be overwhelmed by the immersive experience. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I'm not sure.

One thing fascinating is the way it has been criticized by both Left and Right based on their prejudices about the opposite end of the political spectrum. After all, it both criticizes Corporations (Left!) and is a typical White Male Can Do Anything (Right!) story. Ah, hang it up, folks. It's a story. Damn near the exact same story could have been told in any era of human history (and probably has) and people would complain: You're criticizing the Emperor! You're talking about the British East India Company! You're referencing the Vietnam War...etc.


It is quite funny to listen to people whose cinematic or cultural education goes back twenty whole years swearing it is "Dances With Wolves." Sorry, Charlie...these memes have been around a very, very long time. The point of all art is NOT originality of story. It is also presentation. And at that, Avatar does some things better than anyone, ever. Some of those images are so startlingly clear in 2-D that 3-D just ain't necessary. And hey! Cameron actually had a black male character who didn't die. So far as we know. I'll take it.

##

Eric W.
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#71 Post by Eric W. »

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/ ... index.html

$1 BILLION so far for Avatar, folks.

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#72 Post by AndyDursin »

I couldn't disagree with Barnes' reading of the movie more. For one thing, I haven't seen any left-leaning person criticize the movie for being "too conservative" -- that's the first time I've read anyone attempt to claim that. The film wears its political and ecological leanings on its sleeve, and they're tilted far over to the left...plus the whole "white man can do anything" line is absurd, because the character only does "anything" after he TURNS INTO A 8-FOOT-TALL BLUE ALIEN CREATURE. lol. :)

But more over, it's yet another article from someone who was "blown away by the effects" and seems to stoop over to defend its dramatic deficiencies by saying "it's art because the effects are so amazing"...honestly I understand why people are going (why not? there's nothing else out there, people are starved for entertainment, and it appeals to all audiences), but the critical raves are a bit mystifying. I felt the film was closer to being an outright misfire than a masterwork.
Last edited by AndyDursin on Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#73 Post by AndyDursin »

Eric W. wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/ ... index.html

$1 BILLION so far for Avatar, folks.
Don't forget they also get a surcharge of $4 for every 3D ticket sold.

Not that the movie isn't making loads of dough -- and it's no surprise, when you consider total garbage like TRANSFORMERS 2 can hit that mark too -- but remember they're also getting an extra third (roughly) per ticket on 3D exhibition, which explains, partially, how quickly the film has reached that mark.

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#74 Post by Paul MacLean »

AndyDursin wrote:I couldn't disagree with Barnes' reading of the movie more.
I have a lot of respect for Steven Barnes as a person and think he is an excellent writing teacher (and he's one of the few teachers with actual published novels and produced scripts to his credit). But I don't always agree with with him on films. He thought for instance Peter Jackson's King Kong was magnificent (and I can't really go along with that).

I guess I will have to see this film next week so I can see what everyone is arguing about!

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#75 Post by AndyDursin »

I have a lot of respect for Steven Barnes as a person and think he is an excellent writing teacher (and he's one of the few teachers with actual published novels and produced scripts to his credit). But I don't always agree with with him on films. He thought for instance Peter Jackson's King Kong was magnificent (and I can't really go along with that).
It's probably politics Paul. There is no rational argument that can be made that the movie is "conservatively oriented." None whatsoever. This movie's agenda is as plain as day, on every level -- Barnes comes off like he's trying to defend it in that write-up, so I think I know where he's coming from there.

Honestly while I had a problem, personally, with that preaching element of the film, my bigger problem was with the story and characters. Though in hindsight, I don't think I've seen a bigger flag-waving film for anti-capitalist, anti-military, pro-environmental sentiment than AVATAR possibly ever -- at least not one masquerading as a populist slice of entertainment.

Of course the film can be enjoyed on other levels -- I just didn't particularly enjoy it on those other levels.

:lol:

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