• "Tech" Thread: Blu Ray, HD-DVD, Video Games, HDTV

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:05 pm**

http://www.e-gear.com/story/story.bsp?s ... &var=story

^^ Onkyo backpedaling a bit on their plans for a standalone HD-DVD player.

The way this sounds to me it wouldn't surprise me if they just let 07 go by and do nothing. Wait for the dust to settle. The sales on the LG dual player have been abysmal and the Samsung dual has yet to come out, so it's not like there's wonderfully inspiring precedent on that front.

I'm still waiting to see what Denon and their cousin Marantz are going to do, among others companies.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they all just sit the format war out entirely. That might be the wisest course of action above all else.

http://www.fuhyuan.com/ev/action/main.a ... ction=Show
^^
Fuh Yuan correction statement re: hd-dvd 4/26/07

I guess this ties into this whole WalMart story.

EDIT ADD:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2122715,00.asp
^^
Wal-Mart Shoots Down Cheap HD DVD Rumor

Posted: **Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:27 pm**

But they didn't really "shoot it down". Sure, they denied it, but when pressed about anything more, that rep wouldn't answer anything about their "internal" ops or what not.

I still think there's something to it, but we'll have to see as time goes on (it's crazy how every hour there's something new about it!). Certainly the possibility of "cheap" HD-DVD players is going to happen long before "cheap" Blu Ray players do.

PC World, btw, is the same mag that recently listed the best players of both formats, and had #1 slot occupied by the can't-give-it-away Samsung BDP-1000 (notorious for having problems) and the top HD-DVD player being the A2 at #6, which is laughable by itself.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130058/article.html

Posted: **Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:48 am**

This basically restates the IGN article.

High-def formats reach 1 million units
Blu-ray gets to milestone quicker, but HD DVD player sales pick up speed
By Jennifer Netherby 4/26/2007

APRIL 26 | In what is becoming an almost weekly game by high-definition DVD backers of proving their format’s dominance, the Blu-ray Disc Assn. was quick to announce this week that the format had surpassed 1 million disc sales since launching last June.

However, days later, HD DVD backers sent out a rival press release, noting that HD DVD sales had reached 998,000 units, a mere 2,000 shy of Blu-ray’s mark and evidence that both formats are still very much in the race.

Since the start of this year, momentum has been on Blu-ray’s side, helped by sales of Sony’s PlayStation 3. The majority of high-def disc sales, roughly 70%, have been on Blu-ray since January, according to the Blu-ray Disc Assn.

“It’s exactly what we’ve said all along would happen—the strong support for Blu-ray among movie studios and equipment manufacturers means that consumers have more choices when it comes to players and titles. And they’re choosing Blu-ray by an ever-increasing margin,” said Andy Parsons, chair of the Blu-ray Disc Assn.’s U.S. promotion committee and senior VP of new product development at Pioneer Electronics.

But HD DVD backers note that sales continue to grow on their format and have started to close the gap with Blu-ray.

Since Toshiba slashed the price of its bottom-line HD DVD player to $399 on April 1, sales have picked up, and Toshiba’s HD DVD players are outselling Blu-ray players four-to-one, said Ken Graffeo, Universal Studios Home Entertainment executive VP of HD strategic marketing.

“Price is important,” Graffeo said. “We’re seeing very healthy increases [on HD DVD movie sales]. That really correlates to player sales.”

HD DVD backers continue to tout high attach rates, with the average HD DVD owner buying 28 to 30 movies a year, not including owners of the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on drive.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6437165.html

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2007 12:11 pm**

http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=7073

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/featu ... 0000000025

The sooner the better.

Sony needs to get the price of the 60 gig PS3 down to $499 in time for the holidays and as a bonus, maybe put out a 120 giger thereabouts at no more than $599 for those who feel the need to get something with that big of space.

Otherwise, there's plenty of PC harddrives that can be used on the PS3 as is. I can get a 500 GB hard drive for the price that MS is asking for their 120GB hard drive on the Xbox360 Elite, as one example.

Obviously, something like this doesn't just benefit the PS3. This means that standalone Blu-Ray players can come out cheaper that much sooner as well.

It's good news all the way around for the Blu-Ray format and it's certainly in the BDA's best interest to make sure the above news story comes to pass ASAP.

Posted: **Tue May 01, 2007 1:15 pm**

Oh, I'm sure Sony will be telling us all about it -- they seem to do a better job of PR than anything else these days.

I had to laugh when I read about that mysterious "spotty launch supply" Sony continuously spins in every story about why their PS3's haven't been selling. I mean, do they think everyone is STUPID? That's a total crock of you know what, when you can find consoles in stores and all over Ebay for not a dime over the retail price. The demand for the console is not there right now, and hasn't been since it was launched, period.

At any rate, Sony certainly needs to do something. They've been pounded by Nintendo and Microsoft since launch and their line-up of games is nothing to write home about either. If you want to write a text book on how to screw up a console launch, they've pretty much done it. Indeed, the firing of that big-time Sony guy the other day basically confirms that.

The price is reduction is very important, if not vital, for them to have a chance to make up the ground they've lost here in the early going. I couldn't see them going with a machine that was far too costly from the very beginning, which most of us knew.

The next corrective step is to change the horrid attach rate statistics that Blu Ray has as a format. What the PS3 has shown is that its demographic will turn out and buy CASINO ROYALE in huge numbers but aren't interested in other titles at all. It's why the stat about "5 million Blu Ray" players or whatever it is is very misleading, since the PS3 isn't a standalone machine and its consumer doesn't buy movies the way someone who owns a HD-DVD standalone would. (In fact, I'd go so far as to say those attach-rate numbers are a reason why Walmart is looking into cheap HD-DVD players).

Blu Ray may not go the way of the Betamax, but they've yet to answer HD-DVD as a product as far as I'm concerned. Like I've said, when Blu Ray starts showing me why it's better, I'll be all over it.

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 9:32 am**

I wasn't paying too much attention to this story over the last two days, but now it's suddenly blown way up and it's even making its rounds worldwide.

Here's a sampling:

Google & blogs issued with AACS Cease & Desist
Following the wide spread publicity of the AACS hack, especially with working out the HD DVD processing key, the AACS LA has started sending out Cease and Desist letters to various blog sites as well as the search giant Google for publishing the key to simply linking to the Doom9 threads about the crack. These sites have been threatened with legal action if they do not comply. Unlike going after websites publishing DeCSS software or software that uses DeCSS, the processing key is only useful for sophisticated programmers capable of writing software to rip and decrypt the discs, much like how a blue-print drawing of a door key is not sufficient to unlock a door without an engineer first making a physical key based on it.

Unfortunately for the AACS, it looks like it is going to be quite tricky for Google to take on this measure, considering the 1,000's of websites this processing key has been published on and more showing up all the time. Going by the letter, Google had a week from the letter's date of April 17th to comply and despite that period now being long overdue, Google still indexes 1,000's of website site links containing the key as well as the links indicated for removal in the letter.

One thing that makes the HD DVD decryption key more attractive than the DeCSS key for DVD is the ability to create software to play HD DVDs with high definition on systems lacking HDCP support, something even commerical DVD playback software will not allow. At present, while most consumers have a monitor well capable of showing at least 720p at its native resolution, the lack of HDCP support forces the user to either use an analogue connection or be forced to watch the picture in a greatly reduced resolution.

Source: http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/Google--bl ... esist.html

HD-DVD key fiasco is an example of 21st century digital revolt
It's the most circulated number of the week. Sixteen hexadecimal digits that unlock the wonder of most currently released HD-DVD titles from the surly clutches of the AACS revenue content protection system. Sixteen digits that have been posted in so many places -- and in many cases, removed only to be reposted -- that they're hard to avoid.

Source: http://digg.com/tech_news/HD_DVD_key_fi ... tal_revolt

It's all over the internet! It even made BBC news...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6615047.stm

http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2007/05/bluray_advocate.html

http://www.itpro.co.uk/news/112138/blur ... -hack.html

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7129

This story is big. It was covered by everyone from hardcore establishment websites like the Financial Times of London to alternative websites like Prison Planet. It's all over the place.

Basically I'm getting the message that AACS has failed outright or it's very close to it.

Didn't we see something like this a little while back from the guys at Doom9? Hadn't they already hacked something?

See what you all make of this mess.

EDIT ADD:

https://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?op ... d0eaa3a8f9

This didn't take long!

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 11:29 am**

LOL, that T-shirt is hilarious.

Is this even news? I mean, like you Eric, I thought I read about the Doom9 guys cracking this months ago already.

I guess the response is the news, but it's a little late in coming.

It's basically gotten to the point where it's not going to matter what these studios do. If someone creates the anti-piracy code, someone will be able to decrypt it sooner or later. The only difference in how effective it is, is how long it takes for someone to be able to crack it.

If HD-DVD is based on standard DVD tech, it figures it'll be easier for these guys to crack than Blu Ray.

Even then, it's like the PS2 and the 360 and the Wii...it's just a matter of time before someone out there figures it out. If humans create the code, humans will be able to crack it.

I also don't think it's going to drive down hardware sales. If anything these are the kind of people who will go and buy an HD-DVD player or drive knowing they can play "back-ups" on it!

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 11:34 am**

I'll tell you what Blu Ray disc I'm looking forward to -- APOCALYPTO.

The trailer in HD looked absolutely breathtaking...including the full shot of the Mayan city which wasn't in the movie!

Posted: **Thu May 03, 2007 3:30 pm**

We're not losing it. This was reported on back in February! Looks like the bandwagon just decided to make a big deal out of it on the net.

http://sww.engadgethd.com/2007/02/13/ha ... -all-hd-t/

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 3:10 pm**

Sony better hope Blu Ray was worth it. That's a lot of DVDs they need to sell, to say nothing of what little they've done in terms of producing quality games for the system, or the marketplace they've lost.

Sony game group down $2 billion

PS3 maker's game division posts $914 million loss for the first three months of 2007--and over twice that for the full fiscal year.

By Brendan Sinclair, GameSpot
Posted May 16, 2007 10:58 am PT

Some customers might think the PlayStation 3's $599 retail price is high, but that's chump change compared to what the machine is costing Sony. The electronics giant today posted its financial results for the fiscal year and fourth quarter ended March 31, and as analysts predicted, the game division racked up significant losses.

For the fourth quarter alone, Sony reported an operating loss of $914 million from its game division, attributable primarily to the PS3. Sony's new machine was also responsible for a bump in gross revenue, as the company's gaming segment racked up sales of $2.4 billion, and helped push company-wide sales to $17.7 billion, up 12.6 percent from the previous fourth quarter.

The full-year picture for Sony's gaming division was similarly grim, with the PS3 driving an increase in revenues as well as operating losses. For its full fiscal year 2006, Sony's gaming group posted revenues up 6.1 percent to $8.6 billion, but suffered an operating loss of nearly $2 billion.

According to Sony's financial report, "This deterioration was primarily the result of loss arising from the sale of PS3 at strategic price points lower than its production cost during the introductory period, as well as the recording of other charges in association with preparation for the launch of the PS3 platform."

Sony's figures peg PS3 shipments at 5.5 million systems for the fiscal year, with 13.2 million games to go along with them. As for how its older systems fared, Sony reported hardware sales were down for the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable. The company shipped 14.2 million PS2s for the year, down 2 million from the year before, while PSP shipments totaled 8.4 million, down 5.7 million from the year before. Since then, PSP shipments have slowed significantly, with less than 1 million PSPs arriving in North America and Europe since September of 2006, and a negligible amount in the January-March quarter.

The software picture looked a little brighter, as Sony said 54.1 million PSP games shipped to retail, up 12.5 million from the year before. However, PS2 game shipments dropped 30 million to 193 million units.

For the current fiscal year, Sony expects its game division to post better results, but still lose money.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6170827.ht ... ws;title;0

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 3:12 pm**

^^ Yup, although some analysts had doom 'n' gloom figures at least twice as worse as that.

Everyone, including Sony, knew it was going to be bad short term.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 3:59 pm**

Eric W. wrote:^^ Yup, although some analysts had doom 'n' gloom figures at least twice as worse as that.

Everyone, including Sony, knew it was going to be bad short term.

Sure, I believe that. But to that degree? I also don't for a second believe they thought they'd be lagging behind the Wii & the 360 as much as they've been to this point -- THAT I don't believe was a part of their expectations (or else why did the big Sony guy get canned a few weeks ago?).

Gaming wise, is there some need to buy one? The Wii is doing great (outselling the PS3 by double) and has plenty of bullets in the gun for the end of the year, the 360 has HALO coming up in September so it's doing fine in the U.S....the PS3 needs to do a lot more to get people excited about it as a gaming console.

I still believe, as I have from the start, that the PS3 has been a huge miscalculation on Sony's part on the demand for a high-end unit. They're going to be losing for quite a while, and by the time sales come back, who knows how much marketplace share they've tossed away by the horrific launch the machine has had.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 4:33 pm**

$100 Toshiba rebate on HD-DVD Players!

The A2 starting Sun 5/20; Rebate Applies to all HD-DVD players during final rebate week in June

This is GREAT news for anyone interested in these players, specifically the A20, which I personally have and highly recommend, as well as the A2, which generally gets excellent reviews (just doesnt output 1080p).

If the $100 rebate is applied to the A2 at Amazon you can find it just a little over $200 shipped!

Links:
Toshiba HD-DVD A2:

Toshiba HD-DVD A20 (does 1080p):
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B000MKC34E ... d_i=507846

Plus you get some free movies packed in (dont know what they are, though, lol)...

Beginning Sunday, Toshiba will be offering a $100 USD instant rebate on its entry-level HD DVD player for a period of one month, with the savings eventually being available on any player it sells.

The promotion will run from May 20 to June 16. For the entire period, the $100 instant rebate is applicable to the HD-A2 model, bringing the price down to $299.99 USD. During the final week, the rebate applies to any player.

This brings the prices down to $399.99 for the HD-A20, and $699.99 for the top-of-the-line HD-XA2. Additionally, during that final week period, if a consumer purchases a Toshiba made HDTV at a screen size of 42 inches or larger, the rebate would double to $200.

"We know that price is a powerful driver for consumers to adopt new technology," Toshiba marketing vice president Jodi Sally said in a statement.

In addition to the rebate, new marketing campaigns will also be launched. An HD DVD trailer will begin appearing during film screenings at 932 theaters nationwide, including to movie chains Regal, AMC, and Cinemark. The ads will air over a four week period.

Although a complete list of participating retailers was not provided, Toshiba noted that Best Buy, Circuit City, HHGregg, and Amazon.com will be participating.

According to surveys, Blu-ray is catching up quickly after trailing HD DVD by a wide margin. Data released in April indicated that three out of every four high-definition discs sold in March were in the Blu-ray format.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 4:52 pm**

^^ It's almost like a firesale.

AndyDursin wrote:
Eric W. wrote:^^ Yup, although some analysts had doom 'n' gloom figures at least twice as worse as that.

Everyone, including Sony, knew it was going to be bad short term.
Sure, I believe that. But to that degree? I also don't for a second believe they thought they'd be lagging behind the Wii & the 360 as much as they've been to this point -- THAT I don't believe was a part of their expectations.

No way to really know. I guess it doesn't matter now.

Gaming wise, is there some need to buy one?

As of now, no, not really.

The Wii is doing great and has plenty of bullets in the gun for the end of the year,

Very debateable. I'm already seeing the "Game Cube itis" show up in terms of lackluster third party support and just not enough follow through past Zelda.

The press is starting to get over their honeymoon on the Wii as well. Read the latest Game Informer, for example.

They've had a GREAT early surge, but I'm not so sure they can keep it up.

People aren't going to buy the Wii to play dumbed down ports of games so they can use the wand controller by and large.

Yet again, it will be up to Nintendo to ramp it up on the first party exclusive front, in the end, to make it or break it for the Wii.

Awesome start for them, yes. Can they keep it up?

This isn't the DS we're talking about here.

...the 360 has HALO coming up in September...the PS3 needs to do a lot more to get people excited about it as a gaming console. I just don't feel the buzz, at all.

I agree.

They need those killer apps to start showing up, but yet again, everyone seems to forget that the first 6-8 months thereabouts (roughly the first year) on ANY new game console leave a lot to be desired until the real goodies start showing up.

If you go back to something I posted earlier in this thread, it comes down to this: I think Sony can get the PS3 dropped to $499 for the 60giger by Christmas time after increasing production and supply of these blue laser dioes and by that time there will be some compelling games out there as well.

They do need something in place to counter Halo 3 around September. That game is so unbelievably overhyped anyways that it's virtually impossible to even try to go against it, but they need to have something ready to go.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 4:56 pm**

I'm sure there will be good games out at that point, but by then how many people will own multiple consoles and will be willing to splurge for another? $499 isn't a price point where I'd consider adding a 2nd console (esp. if I already have a 360). It's still on the high end.

I just think they're in real trouble here. It is early in the game for that console, no question, but they've given away a large part of their "Brand" lead already in the marketplace and were late to the party in the first place.

And you're exactly right, I don't see the big guns anywhere. Those Japanese RPGs I don't care about myself, though I know people who do, but otherwise...it's been really quiet.