NO TIME TO DIE [Bond 25] - SPOILER Talk

[AndyDursin]

This was unexpected...

https://deadline.com/2018/08/danny-boyl ... 202449330/

[Paul MacLean]

Forgive me if I don’t shed a tear at the departure of another “auteur” who was sure to put his own “personal stamp” on the franchise.

I thought Sam Mendes brought some excellent ideas to Skyfall — but that was an exception (and considering how Spectre came out, perhaps a fluke).

Bond is best served by journeyman directors. My vote is for Martin Campbell to return.

[AndyDursin]

Hmm....

Craig is back for his fifth film as 007, with a script that Boyle’s Trainspotting partner John Hodge wrote based on an idea by Boyle. Deadline revealed those plans, and we were told then that Boyle was only interested in participating if he could tell that specific story, his way. So it isn’t immediately clear if the producers will stick with the Hodge script, or if they go back to the version that was written by written by Neal Purvis and Robert Wade, who penned Casino Royale, Quantum Of Solace, Skyfall and Spectre. That 007 story got shelved when the producers sparked to Boyle’s pitch.

I am not going to shed a tear either for Boyle but shesh, Purvis and Wade again? These guys are out of ideas and have been around forever...basically been on every one of these since The World Is Not Enough.

I would have preferred a fresh story than another helping of their efforts. Especially when Spectre felt like an end to the Craig series. If they dont have a meaningful story to tell why even bring him back?

[Paul MacLean]

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I am not going to shed a tear either for Boyle but shesh, Purvis and Wade again? These guys are out of ideas and have been around forever...basically been on every one of these since The World Is Not Enough.

I would have preferred a fresh story than another helping of their efforts.

I wonder if Barbara Broccoli figures that if her dad kept Richard Maibaum around for decades, she may as well use the same writers as long as she is producing.

But I get a strong sense they don't know what to do with James Bond anymore. The producers no doubt want the films to stay "current" and "culturally relevant" -- but based on things Broccoli and Craig have said in the past, they mean molding the character to a culture (or more accurately cultural contingent) which is avowedly non-violent, socially-progressive, eco-friendly, pro-globalism, pro-feminist, etc.

Unfortunately James Bond is the antithesis of those things. He kills for his country (in cold blood), drives gas-guzzlers, is condescending (and worse, protective) towards women -- which is precisely why he remains such a captivating character (particularly in today's "walk on eggshells" society).

[AndyDursin]

That's the whole issue. Craig is an uber-lefty and I wonder if Boyle's departure had something to do with the tone of the story, or something the Broccolis didn't want to "see Bond do". Who knows, may not have anything to do with it, but we are in a weird place where James Bond may not be James Bond anymore in today's political climate.

It will be interesting to see if they delay the film -- or possibly can it -- and start fresh with another director/writer. Just moving forward with another Purvis/Wade script because you locked in a release date is probably not the best creative idea, but may well be what ends up happening.

[Monterey Jack]

John Glen or GTFO.

[AndyDursin]

This kind of reminds me now of Roger Moore coming back for A VIEW TO A KILL. He didn't need to make another one, they probably should have moved on, but they kept the band together to crank one more outing out. Only difference is Moore was coming off a solid installment in OCTOPUSSY that would have been a nice way to exit, whereas Craig's SPECTRE is an endless slog (albeit has an actual ending). For entirely different reasons those installments felt like "the end".

Just strikes me that for Craig to come back, there had to have been some kind of creative idea or something beyond the money (well, maybe it IS just the money) to entice him. Now that the idea and Boyle are gone, it'll be interesting to see if this turns out to be his VIEW TO A KILL "just for the money installment".

[Johnmgm]

I suspect Craig should have hung it up after Specter. I think the primary reason he is still around is Eon/MGM were partnering with a new studio and Craig was an established moneymaker as Bond. Now that the negotiations are over they will crank out one more with Craig and start afresh with a new deal firmly under their belt.

Personally, the last great Bond was Goldfinger and the last really good Bond was For Your Eyes Only. There have been a couple of good Craig movies, but none really seemed like James Bond movies, just action movies.

[Paul MacLean]

It's a shame, because for me, Casino Royale was such a breath of fresh air. It really captured the tone of Fleming's books too -- fanciful (but not too), and more edgy and violent. The action sequences were some of the best of the entire series, and David Arnold's score was outstanding as well. It seemed we were entering a new era.

But it just never panned-out. I loved Skyfall (though it would have been better with a real Bond score). But Quantum of Solace and Spectre were very disappointing. I can excuse QoS since it was shot without a finished script, but the tone of Spectre was totally inconsistent -- with the goofy "Roger Moore"-esque sequences (like the plane crash and train fight), but then the sadistic torture scene near the climax. I also found it annoying that the writers decided to make Blofeld the "mastermind" behind the last several Bond adventures (yawn), and I didn't care for Christophe Waltz in the role ("I'm the awthah of awl yaw pain").

[Johnmgm]

I really liked Casino Royale the first time I saw it, but upon revisiting it, I find it too similar to the Bourne movies and others of its time. In the past, Bond influenced other movies, not vice/versa. My main problem with Craig is, he always acts like he has a lump of coal up his ass. Bond doesn’t need to be a buffoon, but he doesn’t need a scowl on his puss throughout the entire movie.

[Monterey Jack]

In the past, Bond influenced other movies, not vice/versa.

Eh? The rise of interest in scuba diving in Thunderball, the Space Race in You Only Live Twice, Blacksploitation in Live & Let Die, Star Wars in Moonraker, late-80s Joel Silver/Scarface in Licence To Kill, xXx/Fast & The Furious in Die Another Day...the Bond films have glommed onto cultural trends and whatever's currently popular in action cinema pretty much from the beginning.

[mkaroly]

I am a big fan of all the Daniel Craig Bond movies - even though SPECTRE had its issues I still really enjoyed it. I need to watch it again though to see if it holds up.

[Paul MacLean]

the Bond films have glommed onto cultural trends and whatever's currently popular in action cinema pretty much from the beginning.

The early Bond films were trend-setters though. No one had ever seen anyone like James Bond or a movie like Dr. No before. Plus John Barry's music was a fresh and innovative approach that really established the style of "spy music". All those other glamorous spy flicks from the 60s -- the Liquidator, Deadlier Than The Male, the Matt Helm movies, the Flint movies (as well as TV shows like The Avengers, The Saint and The Man From UNCLE) were all following the lead of the Bond pictures.

But you're right about the later pictures like LALD, TMWTGG, Moonraker, LTK, etc. In fairness, Ian Fleming wrote LALD in the 1950s, but the decision to adapt it in the early 70s was do doubt a response to blacksploitation pictures.

[AndyDursin]

Yes it's a question of when you start looking -- the 60s films were absolutely trendsetting as Paul says. The 70s were very much in response to what was commercial at the time.

I think the primary reason he is still around is Eon/MGM were partnering with a new studio and Craig was an established moneymaker as Bond. Now that the negotiations are over they will crank out one more with Craig and start afresh with a new deal firmly under their belt.

That may well have something to do with it, the international rights were up for grabs (and MGM took them back outright for the US).

[AndyDursin]

I really liked Casino Royale the first time I saw it, but upon revisiting it, I find it too similar to the Bourne movies and others of its time. In the past, Bond influenced other movies, not vice/versa. My main problem with Craig is, he always acts like he has a lump of coal up his ass. Bond doesn’t need to be a buffoon, but he doesn’t need a scowl on his puss throughout the entire movie.

That's my whole problem with Craig. Looks like he's having as much fun as a guy on death row awaiting execution. The contrary argument is "well I don't want Bond to be a clown" -- ok, fine, but he's got to exude some kind of charisma. Looks more likely to strike a woman than fall in love with her.

Paul is totally on-target in that they missed a big opportunity to tell a developed story with the Craig films in terms of continuity, which is something Bond films never did...but those connected narrative elements really didn't gel, nor does the overall arc of Bond's character make sense (he goes from an impulse newbie to a grizzled veteran without the transition being shown, or at least believably shown). And that SPECTRE ending will never make sense -- especially now that Craig is returning for another film.