5/10

First off...I was never a big fan of ID4. I understand WHY it became a big hit, and it was definitely the kind of movie designed to be seen in a theater with a big audience (meaning it's completely wrong for 2025), but it's never been a personal favorite of mine. This weekend we sat down with Theo to watch it and...I actually think it's worse than I remember it being.

Now, the thing that gets me about Roland Emmerich's subsequent GODZILLA misfire is that everyone complained that movie was too silly, the tone was too light, the characters were too cartoonish, and there was too much comedy.

I guess I have to ask...did any of them see ID4 before? Or had people already forgotten by 1998 that ID4 wasn't all that to start with?

Because literally EVERY criticism you could level at GODZILLA you can see in ID4 as well: too broadly played in terms of tone, too cartoonish in terms of performances, and a sense of danger that is...well, for an end of the world/alien invasion film, almost completely lacking. Even Spielberg's WAR OF THE WORLDS, for all its faults, had a chilling tone and a few set-pieces that enabled you to suspend disbelief. None of that is on-hand here.

Every performance, as well, is auto-pilot: Will Smith looks like he's in between music videos and is there just for the money. His scenes with Harry Connick Jr. seem like a talk show they're holding in the middle of a disaster movie -- there's no sense of urgency between them whatsoever, not even as they take off to shoot down the giant UFO over southern California! Jeff Goldblum does JURASSIC PARK, but not as well. Bill Pullman seems like he's half-asleep. And then you have the supporting turns -- talk about comedy, Judd Hirsch lays on the Jewish father stereotype so heavy it hurts. And Randy Quaid...who's idea was it to cast Cousin Eddie?

It all plays out against a delicious alien invasion premise, but there is no urgency or suspense or sense of disbelief ever produced in this movie. I mean, when Harvey Fierstein is lit up (there's another non-hysterical comedy turn), are you supposed to feel bad -- or just laugh? I think it's the latter, which is the whole problem this movie has.

David Arnold's score did nothing for me either -- it's busy and loud, but it's not very effective. His "upbeat rousing theme" for the Quaid character is almost cringe-worthy when it first appears. But given that the movie is just pedestrian, Arnold's music can't do anything more than basically comment on the superficial, one-dimensional element of it all.

The FX are also weak. They were less than ILM quality in 1996, and now they're dated to the point where an Xbox 360 game from a half-decade later is, today, more impressive.

I hate to just dump all over this movie but it's surprising how frivolous and empty it is...in fact...I'll even admit it...I'd much rather watch Emmerich's GODZILLA again! Having also revisited that not too long ago, at least that movie's creature FX are still solid and the film moves with a faster pace than this. The last half-hour of it is more fun than anything here too.

ID4 has dated poorly but it was never that great in the first place -- an empty calorie blockbuster from a decade that ran out of calories.

I think what made "Independence Day" fun at the time was that in the pre-9/11 world, it was the first genuine throwback to the spirit of the 70s disaster movies and people like me who loved "Towering Inferno" and "Poseidon Adventure" were ready to devour a new take on that concept (the film had some deliberate homages in them like the image of the giant saucers over New York hearkening back to the 1983 "V" miniseries, and there is a shot of the ruined Statue of Liberty that evoked "Planet Of The Apes"). Plus, I think the fact that the aliens remain a background presence in which the only time we hear them is when one of them takes over Brent Spiner, that adds to the sense of menace. These are not aliens we must try to understand better or reach an accord with, they're bad, they're evil, they're a threat etc.

Yes, there were a couple of goofy things at the time like for instance Harvey Fierstein, plus I don't think Will Smith's girlfriend had to be an exotic dancer. But I just was too caught up in the simple "fun" of the movie and the fact it was the first at the time in this kind of thing made it seem fresh. Now with hindsight, two things have changed it. First, 9/11 and the real images of destruction suddenly makes the F/X scenes of destruction of landmarks suddenly strike a sour note (though I suppose we can be grateful that "Independence Day" chose the Empire State Building rather than the World Trade Center for its money shot of NY destruction or else the film may have been blackballed for eternity), and then there was the fact that the success of "Independence Day" launched a slew of copycat projects that suddenly became more exploitative and didn't have the freshness of "Independence Day."

"Godzilla" I think was drubbed more for the fact it was such a radical deviation from the source material and you had that element working against it. Plus, it had no real "money shots" because of the decision to make it all in the dark during a rain storm and honestly, I wouldn't rate any of the performances in "Independence Day" worse than Maria Pitillo.

I haven't actually rewatched "Independence Day" in at least 15 plus years or more (I know I saw it a couple times after 9/11) and I'm not sure if I'm ready to revisit it or other "disaster porn" movies of this late 90s, pre-9/11 period. "Deep Impact" I know was a bit more intelligent (save for the awful subplot of the teen kid). "Armageddon" was stupid. "Day After Tomorrow" which was post 9/11 was pretentious and I will never see "2012". I tried revisiting "Pearl Harbor" which also was made possible thanks to the "Independence Day" success and it was so bad, I shut it off after 20 minutes. So yes, many of these films don't come off well today but "Independence Day" I do know why it connected it then.

Godzilla" I think was drubbed more for the fact it was such a radical deviation from the source material and you had that element working against it. Plus, it had no real "money shots" because of the decision to make it all in the dark during a rain storm and honestly, I wouldn't rate any of the performances in "Independence Day" worse than Maria Pitillo.

She is terrible and Ive always written that but this movie is filled with bad or disinterested performances.

Godzilla if distanced from the Toho movies and taken more as a standalone creature feature does have some excellent set pieces. Even in the rain the FX work and the creature design is better than anything in ID4. I agree the Godzilla fans rightly had difficulty adjusting to a movie that was more like King Kong but if it had been written more like the (well received and quite good) animated series that followed it, with Godzilla fighting a bad guy, they probably wouldve been fine. It was the fact the audience couldnt get behind Godzilla was what hurt them in a lot of ways. The ensuing series corrected all of that (but even there it wrote Pitillo's character out!

AndyDursin wrote: ↑Sat May 31, 2025 8:31 pm She is terrible and Ive always written that but this movie is filled with bad or disinterested performances.

I will with hindsight agree that Bill Pullman's President is an unfortunate relic of 90s Hollywood giving us Bill Clinton type Presidents made to be everything Bill Clinton wasn't (Loving husband and father and action hero superman, which was then taken to more ridiculous extremes in "Air Force One" the following year). Compare that to the moronic President of "Day After Tomorrow" clearly meant to be like Bush (or how Donald Moffat's bad President in "Clear And President" is clearly meant to be a Reagan type).

I agree Goldblum is just giving us his "Jurassic Park" character in all but name (they even deliberately stole his "must go faster!" line from the former again) but in fairness if Charlton Heston could do two disaster films in a row in one year in the 70s I'm not going to fault that. Margaret Colin I thought was okay (my one frame of reference for her before that was when she starred in a failed Sherlock Holmes pilot where she's the present day granddaughter of Watson thawing out Holmes after 90 years of suspension!) Hirsch yes was too much a convenient plot device (why would he know the truth about Area 51??) Still, with Quaid they made a smart decision reshooting his death by having him in a fighter plane instead of his cropduster for the climax.

But still, I think "Independence Day" is a better story than "Godzilla 98" and frankly I think "Cloverfield" got the idea of a giant monster on the loose in New York much better than Godzilla 98 did so that's another reason I'm not inclined to ever revisit that.

The last time I saw ID4 was on laserdisc in late 1996, and I have had zero desire to revisit it in the last 29 years. I found it entertaining surrounded by a cheering audience in the theater, but shorn of that interactive experience, the rampant cliches, mediocre acting and risible stereotyping make it a chore to sit through. Even David Arnold's music isn't that good. I'm reminded of Lukas tearing the movie apart in the pages of FSM, and referring to Arnold's score as being akin to that car Homer creates in The Simpsons where he throws in everything he thinks is cool, and ends up with an $82,000 monstrosity.

The only Emmerich movie I've ever enjoyed was Midway, everything else ranges from mediocre to flat-out awful. Just a shame that he stopped using composers like Arnold and John Williams, which was the only saving grace of his early work.

Monterey Jack wrote: ↑Sat May 31, 2025 9:12 pm The only Emmerich movie I've ever enjoyed was Midway, everything else ranges from mediocre to flat-out awful. Just a shame that he stopped using composers like Arnold and John Williams, which was the only saving grace of his early work.

The one time I saw their version of "Midway" it only enhanced my regard for the 1976 version, even with that film's flaws.

THE PATRIOT is a terrific film and easily Emmerich's best movie for me, but that's also likely because he didn't write the script. I did enjoy MIDWAY, and STARGATE which was also better than ID4 (and Arnold's score wasn't nearly as bombastic there).

My feeling is if Emmerich had an interest in breaking out of the typical genre he dabbled in, and was willing to work with other screenplays, he might have had a better track record. As a visual stylist he was/is capable.

Even David Arnold's music isn't that good. I'm reminded of Lukas tearing the movie apart in the pages of FSM, and referring to Arnold's score as being akin to that car Homer creates in The Simpsons where he throws in everything he thinks is cool, and ends up with an $82,000 monstrosity.

Lukas tore apart a lot of things -- including a lot of perfectly good movies -- back then, but that was his MO. I also remember him watching movies years after everyone else did, and he'd tell you things that happened in them as if you'd never heard them before (like lines from GOODFELLAS). I'd be like "I know Lukas, I watched it 4 years ago".

I actually took Lukas to see ID4 on opening night at Showcase Warwick and remember it well. I did enjoy the movie as a crowd experience, but he didn't like it even then, and I do remember that also!

AndyDursin wrote: ↑Sat May 31, 2025 9:57 pm Lukas tore apart a lot of things -- including a lot of perfectly good movies -- back then, but that was his MO. I also remember him watching movies years after everyone else did, and he'd tell you things that happened in them as if you'd never heard them before (like lines from GOODFELLAS). I'd be like "I know Lukas, I watched it 4 years ago".

I actually took Lukas to see ID4 on opening night at Showcase Warwick and remember it well. I did enjoy the movie as a crowd experience, but he didn't like it even then, and I do remember that also!

Lukas' rampant "young fogeyism" in the early days of FSM is extremely funny in retrospect, and felt like an affectation of an intelligent, passionate guy who wasn't even old enough to legally buy beer for the first five years of the magazine. "You plebes can have your junky James Horner soundtracks, you're not sophisticated enough to appreciate this obscure 1973 blacksploitation score...!"