James Horner - Appreciation Thread

[AndyDursin]

I haven't seen it yet but it's good to hear Jeff.

On ALIENS -- to be fair, they patched up their issues so in light of his passing, I think it would be counterproductive (if not a bit disrespectful) to rehash all of that again. I think they said all they needed to say, and Horner was candid about it in the Aliens DVD interviews, and that bridge was rebuilt so to speak between them.

I was not a fan of the AVATAR score (especially by Horner's standards), but Cameron will have a next to impossible task trying to pick someone out to write that kind of a score from the younger crowd.

[sprocket]

Cameron will have a next to impossible task trying to pick someone out to write that kind of a score from the younger crowd.

I disagree with that: there are plenty of good up and coming composers (especially European ones). Problem is that they are 'no name' composers (many times to film music fans, too). There is a lot of good composing work being done, just not in Hollywood, unfortunately.

Horner would have been shoehorned into writing drek anyway, as that is what sells in Hollywood movies these days, anyways.

[AndyDursin]

I disagree with that: there are plenty of good up and coming composers (especially European ones). Problem is that they are 'no name' composers (many times to film music fans, too). There is a lot of good composing work being done, just not in Hollywood, unfortunately.

Could be. Guys like Sarde and Talgorn came over here, wrote some good stuff, then went home and haven't been heard from since, so I wouldn't know. It baffles me that composers like that are still out there (apparently) but the studios have no interest in them, because all they want is nondescript wallpaper from TeamZimmer(TM) or the guys who use an orchestra but don't know how to write for it.

What I do know is this: if there are good, promising talents out there, they're not scoring movies I'm watching. Hollywood only hires from their own pool these days.

Sad times.

[Paul MacLean]

It baffles me that composers like that are still out there (apparently) but the studios have no interest in them, because all they want is nondescript wallpaper from TeamZimmer(TM) or the guys who use an orchestra but don't know how to write for it.

It is a shame -- and makes no sense. Everyone is falling over themselves to work with Alexandre Desplat, (who still lives in Paris, and is not an outstanding talent) but otherwise Hollywood is completely insular when it comes to hiring composers. Gone are the days when they eagerly offered work to foreign talent like Delerue, Morricone, Sarde, Donaggio, Fenton, Kamen, etc.

[sprocket]

What puzzles me is that there is money to be made with that music. A Titanic (to talk Horner), a Shindler's List, a Patton, a Good, the Bad and the Ugly... the music lives on, generating royalties for decades. Its another revenue stream which is being ignored.

I have to believe that the 'tin-eared' producer has won in modern Hollywood. Just woeful.

[Eric W.]

It's basically the worst case scenario in Hollywood so far as the fate of good music goes.

[BobaMike]

The day after Horner died, I got a chance to hear one of his better scores on the big screen- a touching moment for me personally, as Horner was (along with Williams, and Barry), the composer who got me interested in film music.

Our local Alamo was showing Land Before Time for a dollar the other day. We took our 3 year old to it (for his first movie theater experience). The score is very prominent in the movie, and so unlike any kid's movie music these days. Not overly busy, like most Pixar scores are.

He will be missed.

[John Johnson]

http://blog.tracksounds.com/2015/06/a-c ... orner.html

[Eric W.]

The day after Horner died, I got a chance to hear one of his better scores on the big screen- a touching moment for me personally, as Horner was (along with Williams, and Barry), the composer who got me interested in film music.

Our local Alamo was showing Land Before Time for a dollar the other day. We took our 3 year old to it (for his first movie theater experience). The score is very prominent in the movie, and so unlike any kid's movie music these days. Not overly busy, like most Pixar scores are.

He will be missed.

It has some requisite cutsie music here and there but there is some downright lush beauty in that scored that just bowled me over. I love that score. That and his first American Tail score are both something special.

These are the kinds of things that need to be remastered and expanded instead of the some obscure, esoteric head scratchers that I've been seeing coming from certain labels or some of these ho-hum 90 scores and other odds and ends but that's just my two cents.

[AndyDursin]

AN AMERICAN TAIL is still in print, which is why nobody can expand it, but LAND BEFORE TIME could be on the docket...still, it's Universal, and they are pricier to work with than other studios. Everyone wants another JAWS 2, or DRACULA...crickets on those and they've been out of print forever.

[Paul MacLean]

AN AMERICAN TAIL is still in print, which is why nobody can expand it, but LAND BEFORE TIME could be on the docket...still, it's Universal, and they are pricier to work with than other studios. Everyone wants another JAWS 2, or DRACULA...crickets on those and they've been out of print forever.

The Land Before Time is not only one of Horner's best scores, but one of the best standalone soundtracks of all time. It unfolds with such perfect balance, development and fluidity, and there's nothing to suggest it wasn't written as a concert work.

To me personally the album seems perfect as it is, though I will admit I have not seen the film. But the album contains 69 minutes of music from a 69-minute movie -- though Horner might have scored the 80-minute directors cut. Even so, is there that much more to add?

[AndyDursin]

The album was that long? Just needs a reissue then! Good point Paul.

[Eric W.]

AN AMERICAN TAIL is still in print, which is why nobody can expand it, but LAND BEFORE TIME could be on the docket...still, it's Universal, and they are pricier to work with than other studios. Everyone wants another JAWS 2, or DRACULA...crickets on those and they've been out of print forever.

The Land Before Time is not only one of Horner's best scores, but one of the best standalone soundtracks of all time. It unfolds with such perfect balance, development and fluidity, and there's nothing to suggest it wasn't written as a concert work.

To me personally the album seems perfect as it is, though I will admit I have not seen the film. But the album contains 69 minutes of music from a 69-minute movie -- though Horner might have scored the 80-minute directors cut. Even so, is there that much more to add?

Probably nothing appreciable at that rate. A remaster would make me

[Monterey Jack]

There's at least ten minutes' worth of fine music from The Land Before Time that didn't make the CD, and there's always the possibility of alternate and/or unused cues. Mainly, the CD is in desperate need of remastering...it's one of those 80's Horner CDs (like An American Tail) where the soft parts have me cranking the volume just to hear it properly...only to nearly have my speakers and eardrums blow out when the loud sections come crashing in.

Land Before Time was literally one of my favorite scores when I first started collecting soundtrack albums in the early 90's...it pretty much made me take notice of Horner's name in the credits of a movie, and start collecting anything with his name on it (which led to some bitter disappointments when I'd anticipate some lush symphonic score and get some droney synth effort like Unlawful Entry, Thunderheart or Bopha! instead ). Horner's melodic style was always a good match to animated films, and it was kind of a disappointment when he retreated from cartoons following Balto in 1995...there were plenty of Disney and DreamWorks features in the 00's (when animation in general moved away from the "all musicals, all the time" glut of the 90's) that would have benefitted from his music as opposed to the obligatory Team Zimmer score.

[Paul MacLean]

Mainly, the CD is in desperate need of remastering...it's one of those 80's Horner CDs (like An American Tail) where the soft parts have me cranking the volume just to hear it properly...only to nearly have my speakers and eardrums blow out when the loud sections come crashing in.

Honestly I prefer that to the "loudness wars" where every CD these days (whether pop or orchestral) has its dynamics compressed and then mastered at the loudest level possible.

Doug Fake puts it into perspective here (in response to Ford Thaxton)...

http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ars#p67425

I have the same 26 year experience in this field as you do and have never felt it necessary to use "the car test". Nor did Bruce Botnick, Bernie Grundman, Armin Steiner, Shawn Murphy, Eric Tomlinson, Mike Ross-Trevor, Dan Wallin or any number of other top drawer mixers I personally worked with ever feel the need to pass "the car test" for us. MIXING is an art. There are countless ways to go. But the MASTERING process, where this insane normalizing happens, should always be an attempt to make the final product sound as good as possible, not just mediocre. If mediocre is the goal you feel compelled to strive for, so be it. Typically I enjoy following your work but this time I just can't agree with you.
--Doug