"Tech" Thread: Blu Ray, HD-DVD, Video Games, HDTV

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Eric W.
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#31 Post by Eric W. »

AndyDursin wrote:
HD DVD Promotions Group Touts Spielberg Classics 'Jaws,' 'Jurassic,' 'E.T.'
Tue Jan 30, 2007 at 03:04 PM ET
Tags: Disc Announcements, Universal (all tags)

Generating lightning fast buzz among early adopters, the HD DVD Promotions Group has added a trio of exclusive Spielberg classics to the "Coming Soon" section of its 2007 HD DVD release list, suggesting that the first of the director's long-awaited classics may finally be hitting the format.

The group, which is the official promotional organization for format backers including Universal and Toshiba, routinely updates its HD DVD title list (which can be found in PDF form here) with officially announced titles, as well as those confirmed to the group as being in the planning stages by the major studios.


Though not all of the "Coming Soon" titles the group has been listing on its site for the past year have actually seen release, the list does provide a strong indicator of what fans might expect in the coming months.


So needless to say, with the appearance of the Steven Spielberg classics 'Jaws,' 'Jurassic Park' and 'E.T.,' hopes are now high among HD DVD fans that the director's first titles will hit high-def this year.


Of course, as DVD enthusiasts know all too well, Spielberg turned out to be one of the longest hold-outs of the standard-def format, refusing to release his major titles for many years despite much pleading from the fanbase.

It is also worth noting that Universal itself, in a press release and statements made only late last week, promised 100 new HD DVD titles in the coming year, but no Spielberg titles were included on the list pending "filmmaker involvement."
Did we ever see all 100 titles actually named or any kind of dates or time frames to go along with them?

So we'll take a wait-and-see attitude towards the news, if only for fear of being disappointed.

Should even one of these Spielberg gems see release this year, however, it would certainly prove to be a boost for the HD DVD format, as most of the director's titles are currently distributed by Universal Studios releases, the sole studio holdout from the Blu-ray camp.
It's a big what-if.

Hell, we've seen titles like Shawshank and Deadwood sitting on that same list for the last year. All they did was add a few more what-ifs.

In general, we just need to start seeing more definitive and concrete information, especially in regards to big name titles like those. It's time to put up or shut up.

That goes for both formats. Someone kick ass and get it done already. Let's get this nonsense over with.

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AndyDursin
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#32 Post by AndyDursin »

Like I said, POTENTIALLY good news :)

Those titles DO materialize, though, and they're bigger than any of the dozens of mostly-lame Blu Ray "exclusives" from Lions Gate, Fox, Disney, etc.

But we shall see, indeed! ;)

Eric W.
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#33 Post by Eric W. »

Here's some "controversy":


http://www.joystiq.com/2006/02/17/micro ... d-to-fail/

http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/15/swit ... nts-discs/

Microsoft wants both Blu-ray and HD DVD to lose. You see, before Microsoft and Intel backed HD DVD, Toshiba was just about the only major consumer hardware brand backing HD DVD. Now, since Microsoft and Intel have hopped on to the HD DVD bandwagon and at least dragged HP part of the way there, HD DVD has become a much more viable option
Microsoft knows that even with its and Intel's support, the standard isn't strong enough to beat Blu-ray in the marketplace per se. However, with them on board, HD DVD is just strong enough so that there's a good chance that neither standard will be able to claim a clear victory..."
"How is that good for Microsoft?
Microsoft really has nothing to gain from either format winning. Just listen to any of Gates' recent interviews and how he talks about discs as a necessary evil until the world is ready for media-free distribution. That said, Microsoft has much to gain from both formats losing. Think back to the format war between DVD-Audio and SACD. Both formats lost and it was a computer company that stepped in to become the new center of the digital music universe

Sadly, it makes sense because frankly, nothing else does anymore.

It just sounds like MS, doesn't it?



Microsoft has a nice software codec in the form of their VC-1 codec.

A few months ago, even Sony stopped saying "hell no!" at the prospect of using it somewhere down the road.

Like 'em or lump 'em, usually MS put themselves in a position where they can't lose. Originally I thought VC-1 was their true endgame and frankly, it should be.

A split market means less money for everyone. A combined market under one format that everyone can count on and 100 percent studio support means more money for everyone, including MS. You'd have certain studios using VC-1 and cranking out discs with it and that means easy royalty money in MS's pocket.

^^ That's more or less the way MS usually works.

Makes sense right?



But not this time!

This whole MS vs. Sony thing has become irrational and completely lacking any common sense.


I realize most of you around here have pretty much already declared HD-DVD the winner, even though nothing could be further from the truth. No one has won anything yet.

Proof?

Culver City (CA) - According to figures released by Nielsen VideoScan, recent Blu-Ray sales are trouncing HD-DVD by a 2 to 1 margin.

The figures add up sales from retail registers, along with some websites, and cover the second week of January 2007. According to Nielsen, Blu-Ray has also closed the gap in total sales since inception from 14% to 7%. If the trend continues, Blu-Ray should overtake HD-DVD in less than a month.

The most popular Blu-Ray disc during the reporting perod was Crank with Black Hawk Down as a distant second. Batman Returns was the most bought HD-DVD disc with Mission Impossible III following behind.

One easy explanation for Blu-Ray's rise is the included player inside of all Sony PlayStation 3 consoles.

Millions of consoles have been sold and most include a voucher for money back on a Blu-Ray disc purchase.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/02/01/blura ... d_nielsen/

I guess the format war ain't over yet is it? ;)

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hd-dvd ... ayers.html

http://www.hometheatermag.com/playstati ... index.html

^^ Looks like another crowd besides gamers is in play after all. $500-$600 is nothing to that crew.




Anyways:


Be that as it may, try and be objective and step back and look at the big picture for a moment:


It just doesn't make any sense, at least not until you read articles like the above.

HD-DVD would be dead today right now if MS simply stepped back and said: "We're neutral. We're out of this thing."

There's certainly no way Toshiba could hold this thing up by themselves. They already divested themselves of the SED project last month over to Canon due to financial constraints, so it's not hard to connect the dots on this thing.

Proof: http://gear.ign.com/articles/755/755742p1.html



40 percent studio support and one lone exclusive in the form of Universal can only get you so far.



The other side of the MS coin goes something like: "If we can't have it, no one can." People familliar with the PC market know what can look like coming from them.

It's nothing new.

That is what it's starting to look and feel like: Keep the market deliberately split and keep customer confusion and apathy up.



As a home theater and AV enthusiast, I'm one of many that groaned when we realized that somehow the MS vs. Sony console gaming war was going to tread into our neck of the woods.


Except this isn't just MS vs. Sony and Blu-Ray is not solely a Sony venture by a longshot.

Panasonic/JVC's parent company arguably has more to do with Blu-Ray's inception than Sony does.

So where does this all lead?



Digital downloads.

Andy and I were talking about this in another thread, but I'll say it again here: If MS or anyone else thinks they can strongarm and try and force everyone to their DRM controlled digital downloads, guess what?

Until you can get a FIOS like setup out in the boonies and up into the mountains and have it cost less than $50 a month? Forget about it! Digitial downloads are a nice, niche item at best.

The other x factor is: Lots of people prefer to have something concrete to show for their money.

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#34 Post by AndyDursin »

I never declared HD-DVD a winner (the porno thing was a joke), but since the debate is still on-going, I'm curious why Blu Ray "winning" is going to be good for anyone other than Sony fanboys and PS3 owners.

Blu Ray may "win" but to me that would be a loss for consumers. Sony paid off those studios for exclusivity rights and have tried brainwashing consumers that their tech is superior. I read for months -- MONTHS -- about how much better Blu Ray is, why it would work better -- can anyone give me ONE disc that shows that it's better? ONE? And please don't say they're still "working" on codecs or something that will EVENTUALLY produce superior picture and sound. The products are all in the marketplace now and if anything HD-DVD's releases are superior in terms of providing a package (how about supplements -- something Blu Ray hasn't even heard of!) that's just as good, if not better, for LESS money!

It boils down to this -- HD-DVD costs less. It looks just as good. It sounds just as good. It delivers supplements far better than anything on Blu Ray. Yet Blu Ray may win, simply because Sony is throwing their weight behind one of their own tech products and using PR and all sorts of marketing clout to sell it -- which is fine, we'll all need to fork over more $$ for Blu Ray but don't for a second believe their hype about the format being superior, because SEEING IS BELIEVING and I can tell you it's a nice format but it's not better than HD-DVD.

BTW, as I've said from the beginning, I have no vested interest in ANYTHING but favoring the product that delivers the most at its price point.

If you don't want a PS3, Blu Ray is an absolute farce. The players still run upwards of $1000. HD-DVD players now run under $400 and could fall even more by year's end. Big picture, NOBODY is buying either format right now to a large degree, with Blu Ray "winning" by default since they've had more titles being released recently and HD-DVD being pretty quiet.

Still a very long way to go. The irony is the PS3 is helping Blu Ray but sales of the PS3 itself remain tepid -- which makes you think in the grand scheme of things Blu Ray (and HD-DVD as well) aren't selling enough to make large inroads in the marketplace either way. (And I know the Sony justification for their fourth quarter, but give us a break, NOBODY predicted they'd do so poorly versus Nintendo, and telling us this was the "plan all along" is one of the funniest things I've possibly ever read. Must have been why you could find units sitting on store shelves and hundreds upon hundreds being sold on Ebay -- for no profit at all!).

I agree, Eric, digital downloads are not going to be a reality for most people...if they were priced correctly I would consider it, but isn't it something like $5 or so just to download an HD movie? No thanks, I'll rent from Blockbuster instead!

Eric W.
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#35 Post by Eric W. »

^^ Why not buy it all? ;) You know you want to.

That new HDTV you bought is calling out to you: "Andy....Feed me! Feed me the best!!!!"

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD both = The best.

You know what you have to do. :wink:



I know you said in some other thread you'd only seen some Blu-Ray discs in quick passing for a few hours at a friend's house. Instead of me trying to type a bunch of BS here, the best thing I can tell you to do is try and find a way to see more of ALL of it. :)



Here's the offical theme of this thread (note the red text):
Image

:lol:

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AndyDursin
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#36 Post by AndyDursin »

Eric,
LOL!!

If I didn't already own 2 consoles I would consider the PS3...and when an affordable Blu Ray and/or combo player comes out I will get it!! Believe me!!

It sucks to have 1080p and only HDTV and upconverting DVD in the living room ;) Relatively speaking of course!!

It's just too bad everyone couldn't have figured out the best course of action to sell ONE format. The duelling formats is going to put ANY hd-based DVD format back months, if not years, from mainstream acceptance.

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#37 Post by Eric W. »

AndyDursin wrote:Eric,
LOL!!

If I didn't already own 2 consoles I would consider the PS3...and when an affordable Blu Ray and/or combo player comes out I will get it!! Believe me!!
You know what's funny: I cleared out a bunch of old DVDs, old games, crap and odds and ends and traded it in at EB/Gamestop and was pleasantly surprised.

The time comes you're ready to make a move I can't recommend that path enough: Unload as much junk as you can for a boost. They even handle BD's and HD-DVD's now.

It sucks to have 1080p and only HDTV and upconverting DVD in the living room ;) Relatively speaking of course!!
Oh, I feel SOOOO sorry for you!

:lol:


It's just too bad everyone couldn't have figured out the best course of action to sell ONE format. The duelling formats is going to put ANY hd-based DVD format back months, if not years, from mainstream acceptance.
Aye sir. :cry:

Eric W.
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#38 Post by Eric W. »

Update:

http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/list.html

The inclusion in the January 29 update of our "Coming Soon List" of three Steven Spielberg classics was an error on our part. The HD DVD Promotion Group expresses sincere apologies to Steven Spielberg, Universal Studios Home Entertainment and HD DVD fans for this mistake.

We will endeavor to prevent any similar mistake and to provide accurate information.
That would be a first.

I guess Steven didn't like the fact that his movies were put on a list before he was asked.

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#39 Post by AndyDursin »

Yeah I can't be hugely surprised.

Spielberg movies are traditionally among the last to make it to any "new" format, so it's probably going to be a LONG while before we see high-def DVDs of any of his films.

Eric W.
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#40 Post by Eric W. »

AndyDursin wrote:Yeah I can't be hugely surprised.

Spielberg movies are traditionally among the last to make it to any "new" format, so it's probably going to be a LONG while before we see high-def DVDs of any of his films.
Definitely "post format war" caliber titles all the way.

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#41 Post by Eric W. »

Ready for this?
Sony Crowns Blu-ray Disc as Winner Over HD DVD



Feb. 5th, 2007 5:09 pm
Sony Computer Entertainment America issued a press release today announcing that since the release of the PlayStation 3, with more than two million units shipped worldwide, Blu-ray Disc has experienced "tremendous growth in consumer adoption."

Using data provided by consumer research firm Nielsen VideoScan, Sony found out that:

* Blu-ray has surpassed HD-DVD in cumulative sales.
* Blu-ray titles outsold HD-DVD titles by more than a two-to-one margin during the first week of January (47.14 HD DVD titles for every 100 Blu-ray titles)
* Blu-ray titles outsold HD-DVD titles closer to three-to-one during the second week of the month (38.36 HD-DVD titles for every 100 Blu-ray titles)




We expect to hear back from Toshiba soon but, in the meantime, it looks like Sony finally got one right.



Xbox Connections
Source: http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12714/Son ... er-HD-DVD/

^^ No, that's not a typo or a hacked link. Team XBOX.

The title of the Xbox story here is spin. Nowhere in the press release they refer to does Sony declare themselves outright winners or anything else.


The actual quoted item here is little more than Sony PR pumping out whatever, but what stopped me in my tracks is...look at the source for this story?! :shock:

Look at the begruding compliment even from the writer of the piece.

Man, someone's going to get a nasty memo from Big Bill for this! :lol:



Aside: Home Theater Magazine's new MArch 07 issue gave the PS3 a 94/100 review and really put the thing to the stars just like that Sound and Vision review I linked to earlier in the thread. I just can't believe I'm seeing this kind of glowing praise in AV and HT magazines for a "game console."

Maybe "Sony did get it right" as the Xbox Connections writer begrudgingly threw out there. Hard to ignore lofty sources and reviews like these as they keep pouring in.

I know I've been enjoying the hell out of my PS3 since I bought it in November. I can't recommend it enough.

I'll quote the end of the HT magazine review because they said it as well as anyone could:
Have you been waiting to take the Blu-Ray plunge? Are you worried that your library of PS1 and PS2 games will be obsolete? Dive fearlessly into the future with the PS3, an elegant conglomeration of the best entertainment technology.
Exactly right.


EDIT for add:


I don't know what amazed me more. What was said or where it was posted.

Watch:


http://tech.msn.com/products/article.as ... 6&GT1=9132

MSN.

You'll see where David Carney the Executive Editor of CNET has made tech predictions for 2007.

He predicts that HD-DVD camp might surrender by September 2007. What is surprising is that this information is posted on the Microsoft MSN webpage.

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#42 Post by AndyDursin »

I still believe in the big picture neither format is making any noise at all.

Plus, not sure what this means but read into it what you will...just received the PR release and it's mysterious! :shock: :wink:

Life's only certainties are death and taxes; hence, Fox Home Entertainment and MGM Home Entertainment can be forgiven for having to reshuffle their Blu-ray (BD) release schedule. The following March and April titles WILL NOT BE RELEASED AS PREVIOUSLY ANNOUNCED. WE HOPE TO THEIR NEW RELEASE DATE FOR YOU SHORTLY.

March:

Fox ­ Ice Age, Dodgeball, Commando
MGM ­ Thomas Crown Affair, Dances With Wolves

April:
Fox ­ Tristan & Isolde, Dude Wheres My Car, The Fly, Turistas

MGM ­ Hannibal, Silence of the Lambs, To Live and Die in LA

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#43 Post by Eric W. »

AndyDursin wrote:I still believe in the big picture neither format is making any noise at all.

Plus, not sure what this means but read into it what you will...just received the PR release and it's mysterious! :shock: :wink:

Life's only certainties are death and taxes; hence, Fox Home Entertainment and MGM Home Entertainment can be forgiven for having to reshuffle their Blu-ray (BD) release schedule. The following March and April titles WILL NOT BE RELEASED AS PREVIOUSLY ANNOUNCED. WE HOPE TO THEIR NEW RELEASE DATE FOR YOU SHORTLY.

March:

Fox ­ Ice Age, Dodgeball, Commando
MGM ­ Thomas Crown Affair, Dances With Wolves

April:
Fox ­ Tristan & Isolde, Dude Wheres My Car, The Fly, Turistas

MGM ­ Hannibal, Silence of the Lambs, To Live and Die in LA
Where'd this come from?

I know in some cases, the studios really want to start incorporating BD+,BD Java, and some of those other funky and advanced features exclusive to the format.

Maybe that's why this happened.

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#44 Post by AndyDursin »

I suppose that's the reason for the delay too Eric.

That's an official release I received today from one of my PR peeps handling the Fox Blu-Ray titles.

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#45 Post by Eric W. »

AndyDursin wrote:I suppose that's the reason for the delay too Eric.

That's an official release I received today from one of my PR peeps handling the Fox Blu-Ray titles.
Cool.

FWIW, here's what the Digital Bits had to say about it:
First up this afternoon, a Blu-ray Disc update. There have been a few reports today that Fox and MGM have cancelled a bunch of their upcoming Blu-ray Disc titles. I spoke with a senior Fox rep a short time ago, and this is completely untrue. What's happening is that they're moving some dates around. Nothing is being cancelled per se. Some titles are moving up, some are being pushed back. There's just a bit of fluidity to the schedule due to authoring and replication issues, and it should all settle down again soon. I'm sure there are those hyping this as "the end of Blu-ray" online, but the reality is far from it. We'll post more details on the revised street dates when they're available.

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