"Tech" Thread: Blu Ray, HD-DVD, Video Games, HDTV

[Eric W.]

Now this IS interesting:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6435329.html

http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/20/the- ... n-the-way/

^^ There's a translation issue up in the air here.

Both formats use the blue lasers but I'm suspecting this favors HD-DVD for two reasons:

1.) HD-DVD is evolved off the existing DVD architecture. Blu-Ray does not.

They both use the same blue lasers though, which is where this translation issue becomes kind of interesting as you can see in the endgadget addendum.


2.) Without getting political...cheap Chinese labor brings all the costs down on just about anything you want to name.

One of my contacts (who I have to keep anonymous, sorry) sent me this little note in my email:

re: Walmart HD DVD player

TDK is supplying the laser head (Toshiba).

Fuhyaun is making the loader.

Decoder chip is Broadcom.

Walmart has surveyed and qualified the China Great Wall manufacturing facility

^^ This is a source that's beyond reproach in my book that sent this to me.


Theory: I think it's Sanyo. They're the one HD-DVD ally that was supposed to put out a player last year and then ended up no-showing.

Sanyo is a name you see all over the place at WalMart, so I'll be surprised if this is anything outside of a positive for HD-DVD but we shall see. Combos aren't off the table, but damn. $300 combo players? That's pushing it, even for the Chinese!

The translations and speculations are all over the place! No one knows for sure what the heck this really is!


EDIT ADD:


Microsoft Company hires Wal-Mart executive to join executive leadership team:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/pres ... nerPR.mspx

http://www.centernetworks.com/walmart-i ... to-firefox

^^ I think these two links give me a pretty good indicator of which way this particular wind is blowing.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/sh ... iction/585

[AndyDursin]

Confusion reigns, but I'd also be shocked if this was a Blu Ray machine. It doesn't make any sense, the discs are more expensive, the parts are more expensive...HD-DVD is based on current DVD tech to some degree. If they're talking about a bargain player I can't see how it would be a Blu Ray machine.
(to be honest I think Endgaget is using wishful thinking -- the Blue reference is probably right in line with being the same blue laser BOTH formats use as you say Eric).

Either way I agree, this would be a huge deal for HD-DVD. Never underestimate the power of Walmart, as this would make standalone players even more appealing to the mainstream. I think $299 would be on the high end too -- chances are they'll be even lower than that.

[Paul MacLean]

I wonder how durable these machines will be. I owned a Chinese-made Cyberhome DVD player. It didn't last long.

I also have some pause about the HD/BluRay players in general, as they apparently won't play any PAL discs (and I have a ton of foreign DVDs).

Still, I hope one of these HD formats does take-off...because then everyone will sell their old DVDs and I can buy-up them up for peanuts!

[AndyDursin]

Well you do get what you pay for, though generally speaking the quality on the low end machines (at least in terms of the "original DVD") has improved steadily over the years.

I'd say, had I not bought my own standalone, these would have to be substantially under Toshiba's prices -- say $199 -- for me to express any interest. There's a chance they will end up there though, Walmart will drop the price as low as it can to move these, like they do anything else.

This will be a huge benefit to HD-DVD if it ends up happening. The fact that it's easier to manufacture an HD-DVD player and press HD-DVD discs would figure at some point.

As far as PAL goes, you may be waiting a while. Better to pick up a quality region free player like the Oppo, since it's entirely possible Blu Ray and HD-DVD machines are being built expressly for the U.S. market (at least the ones that are available here).

I recall when DVD first hit the market, none of them could play PAL either. It was only when time went on and other manufacturers signed up, did we start seeing players that could play every format -- and the only reason that happened was because the interiors of the players were manufactured so they could be sold everywhere, I'm guessing, hence the "region free capability."

We're nowhere near that point as no HD-DVD or Blu Ray player is region free or even PAL compatible I believe. Maybe Oppo will sign on in the future, THEN you'd have it all (but then you'd be paying a lot more than what the HD-DVD player will cost at Walmart

[Paul MacLean]

Well you do get what you pay for, though generally speaking the quality on the low end machines (at least in terms of the "original DVD") has improved steadily over the years.

Hope I didn't unsult you, Andy, as it was you who reccomended the Cyberhome to me -- which did work great until it conked-out!

We're nowhere near that point as no HD-DVD or Blu Ray player is region free or even PAL compatible I believe.

Do you know what kind of inroads has HD-DVD/BluRay have made in Europe or China? I'm just wondering 'cause I can't imagine them trying to push these new formats in PAL strongholds if they don't play PAL discs.

But...if these WallMart players are being made in China -- which is a PAL country -- I'm encouraged to hope for all-region HD players.

[AndyDursin]

LOL you didn't insult me! The Cyberhome was great for what it was -- basically the first good under $100 region free player...I sold mine off before it died, thankfully, when I bought that Toshiba region free which worked a lot better.

Before that, remember the other players we had? The "Classic" which was a closeout item at Ames that was region free AND the first that properly converted PAL 16:9 to US 4:3 TVs...sadly it was not well built either, but thank goodness for the "bay", right? Again, it was what, $60? Less?

Then there was the "Sampo"...which was OK but I had to keep shipping mine back to them to get a working one. Again, somehow recouped my costs on the auction circuit for it, just in the knick of time

As I said, I think even on these "bargain" players the reliability factor is better than what it was. I bought a Cyberhome knock-off for my parents' bedroom -- region free, 480p progressive scan -- for $20 at Target. Even if it dies, who cares, it was only $20, and it works good for now at least

[Eric W.]

As I said, I think even on these "bargain" players the reliability factor is better than what it was. I bought a Cyberhome knock-off for my parents' bedroom -- region free, 480p progressive scan -- for $20 at Target. Even if it dies, who cares, it was only $20, and it works good for now at least

*sniff, sniff*

Hey, is that smoke I smell?






EDIT ADD:

More mixed signals. Take it FWIW:

Take it FWIW:

From http://www.homemediaretailing.com/news/ ... _ID=10557:

Melissa O’Brien, senior manager of corporate communications for merchandise, said the chain will carry Sony’s new Blu-ray player when it is released. Wal-Mart also stocks Sony’s PlayStation 3 game console, which includes a Blu-ray drive.

The story goes on to say WM will be ramping up their support of BOTH HD formats.

[AndyDursin]

Interesting. Still, I just don't see how you can produce a "cheap" Blu Ray player this soon into the game. They can ramp up the HD in both all they want, but that's the problem Sony has. Their players cost $$$ more than an HD-DVD player (unless they take a HUGE hit on the costs). Cheap HD-DVD players make a lot more sense, since Toshiba's own pricing is all under $500 right about now (and the top of the line XA2 is only slightly more), with most under $399.

Anyway I read about THE GOOD SHEPHERD and CHILDREN OF MEN having issues in HD-DVD players and Universal sent me a whole bunch of HD-DVD titles (HITCHER, SMOKIN ACES, GOOD SHEPHERD, THE JERK, ALPHA DOG) on Friday.

So I put GOOD SHEPHERD in and what do you know, "unrecognizable disc" pops up.

After reading some wacky solutions people had, I actually did one of them for the hell of it -- I PUT IT IN A SMALL PAN OF BOILING WATER FOR 15 SECONDS!!

Yes, amazing as it may seem, I did it. And nothing happened yesterday. Same old "unrecognizable disc, not a DVD" error.

I put the disc in today and it WORKED. Not only that but it played -- the entire movie! Someone speculated it might have something to do with a chemical not having been removed or something at the plant...who knows, but I know at least in my case it DID work.

Universal didn't send me THE GAME, but after reading some of the reviews about a less than stellar transfer, maybe they're trying to bury it? (Then again it's a dark and murky looking film to begin with, so I doubt HD would have huge benefits to reap in that instance).

[Eric W.]

^^ Usually with glitches like that, you can probably power the unit down, unplug it so it's dead cold, wait a few minutes, plug it back in and then see if that "resets" everything.

Sidenote:

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex ... tartpage=2

Zoom in on page 2 to the right. Story finishes on page 28. Interesting stats, although I don't think there's anything earth shattering there that we didn't all already know.

[AndyDursin]

Usually with glitches like that, you can probably power the unit down, unplug it so it's dead cold, wait a few minutes, plug it back in and then see if that "resets" everything.

Except this definitely appears to be a disc problem, not a hardware/compatibility issue.

Had the same thing tonight -- SMOKIN ACES kept coming up as unplayable/not a DVD. Wouldn't load at all.

Did the same thing -- placed it in a small pan of boiling water for 15 seconds. Let it cool for a couple of hours and now it plays perfectly.

Definitely seems to be something ON the disc itself -- a film or residue left over from the manufacturing process -- because this is now 2 brand new discs that wouldn't even start to load, but now play just fine.

I'm guessing getting it to a higher temperature, then letting it cool and having whatever is on it evaporate is the deal, because I'm 2 for 2 on this (and I admit if I had paid for these I might've held off trying it, but hey, I gotta review 'em!).

Weird, but it works!

[Eric W.]

^^ Guess we all learned something new here.

EDIT add:

http://tinyurl.com/23y76p

http://preview.tinyurl.com/23y76p

^^ The original link was too long. I promise that's not porn!


This says that

Blu-ray Disc Sales Surpass One Million Mark

Blu-ray Accounts For 70 Percent of High-Definition Movies Sold During First Quarter, According to Home Media Research Sales Figures...

What are HD-DVD's numbers vs. that?

[AndyDursin]

I posted before, HD-DVD basically had 0 new releases over the 1st quarter of this year and no promotion whatsoever, so obviously Blu Ray is going to have huge sales numbers -- or at least a large discrepency -- between the two formats when you look at any period between January and the beginning of April.

Let's see where everything is at by next year at this time. However, I believe in the next few months you will see HD-DVD sales tilting back in its favor, as player prices continue to fall as they are doing now. Look at Amazon and HD-DVD software sales have perked up big-time in the last month. Standalone players are selling better, and the Walmart deal is going to be a huge benefit for HD-DVD also.

At least, all of those things are going to prevent Blu Ray from "proclaiming victory" as they've done, what, a dozen times already? This on-going battle is going to go on for months to come

[Eric W.]

I posted before, HD-DVD basically had 0 new releases over the 1st quarter of this year and no promotion whatsoever, so obviously Blu Ray is going to have huge sales numbers -- or at least a large discrepency -- between the two formats when you look at any period between January and the beginning of April.

Let's see where everything is at by next year at this time. However, I believe in the next few months you will see HD-DVD sales tilting back in its favor, as player prices continue to fall as they are doing now. Look at Amazon and HD-DVD software sales have perked up big-time in the last month. Standalone players are selling better, and the Walmart deal is going to be a huge benefit for HD-DVD also.

At least, all of those things are going to prevent Blu Ray from "proclaiming victory" as they've done, what, a dozen times already? This on-going battle is going to go on for months to come

I know something we all agree on for sure with all this, across the boards: "Put up or shut up."

[AndyDursin]

This sums it up. There's no resolution coming to this for quite a bit IMO...

Two better than one?

APRIL 20 | SONY PICTURES Home Entertainment released some data on Blu-ray and HD DVD software sales the other day, courtesy of Nielsen/VideoScan’s retail point-of-sale data collection system.

Given studios’ typical reticence to release that sort of information, we can assume Sony felt the numbers tell a story it wants the world to hear, namely that Blu-ray releases are outselling HD DVD releases by a large and growing margin.

That would fit with the Blu-ray camp’s No. 1 talking point at the moment: The format war is over, and Blu-ray has won.

Indeed, of the Top 25 next-gen releases in 2007 through the middle of March, 23 were Blu-ray releases. The only straight-up HD DVD release to crack the Top 25 was Warner Home Video’s Batman Begins.

Yet it’s the one other HD DVD release to appear in the Top 25 that hints at the real story in the numbers, and it’s probably not the one Sony intended.

Warner’s The Departed was ranked No. 1 and No. 3 on Blu-ray and HD DVD, respectively. Combined, the sales to date of The Departed more than double sales of Sony’s Casino Royale, the biggest selling Blu-ray-only title to date. And Departed did it with $30 million less in domestic box-office behind it.

The Departed isn’t the only dual-format release to beat the best-selling single-format releases, either. Superman Returns, released in 2006 against a smaller hardware base, also outsold Casino Royale, according to sources familiar with the data. So did Happy Feet, released in March.

The point is not that two formats are better than one. Everyone unquestionably would be better off if either Blu-ray or HD DVD “won” the format war and there were only one high-def format.

But given the current market realities, the best high-def strategy for a studio is to release movies in both formats.

IT’S NOT HARD to understand why Sony is pushing the “Blu-ray has won” line.

But from the perspective of a studio without a direct financial stake in a particular format there’s no clear victor in sight.

Toshiba has dropped the price of its entry-level HD DVD player to $399 in anticipation of competition from low-priced players from China by the fourth quarter. And on Friday, a news report out of Asia indicated that Wal-Mart has placed orders for 2 million HD DVD players from Chinese manufacturers to be delivered this year with a target retail price of $299.

Sony said last month it would slash the price of its stand-alone Blu-ray player from $999 to $599 later this year. Last week, it confirmed it is eliminating the low-end PlayStation 3 model, which, among other things, will clear the field for stand-alone Blu-ray players from other manufacturers in the $500 to $600 price range.

Clearly, both of the principal format backers are committed to fighting it out at least through the fourth quarter of this year. As a practical matter, that means there will be product from both in the market through the end of the first quarter of 2008, no matter what happens over Christmas.

Samsung also plans to start shipping its dual-format player in time for the fourth quarter, which means it will still be selling it well into 2008.

Meanwhile, with Blu-ray embedded in PS3, the Blu-ray hardware base continues to grow inexorably, while Microsoft’s HD DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 continues handily to outsell any stand-alone player in either format.

At a minimum, the hardware format war will be with us for the next 12 to 18 months. Even if one side or the other were to stumble badly this fourth quarter, neither will vanish from the market until the middle of next year at the earliest.

In the face of those ground-level facts, it’s hard to see a basis for continuing to release movies only in one format.

At this point, a single-format strategy by any given studio is not affecting the course of the hardware format battle, which is moving under its own internal momentum.

The only measurable result—as the Sony data makes clear—is that single-format studios are leaving money on the table and getting nothing in return.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6435465.html

[Eric W.]

There's some good points there, but I truly believe that a single format would simply yield overall better sales and assure HD adoption that much faster for what I feel are obvious reasons, not the least of which are: Solidarity, 100 percent support hardware/software = customers know they can count on it with zero risk and zero fear, such as it is.

Basically, you need go no further back in time to when DVD started to take off for the races and never looked back.

I guess we're headed for another SACD vs. DVD-A situation after all. I'm starting to resign myself to that an increasingly likely probability.