It's unfortunate Brosnan wasn't able to get out of his TV contract in the late '80s, because his casting (especially at that time) would've had a lot more commercial appeal than Dalton -- subsequently there would've been more continuity there, and there wouldn't have been a need for an extended hiatus before GOLDENEYE.

As it is, he inherited the role anyway, and his movies grossed a ton of money. They're a mixed bag. I like TOMORROW NEVER DIES and the first 2/3 of DAD before it gets stupid. GOLDENEYE would've been a different movie with a better score -- we all know it, that score is a dreary mess that really ruins the movie -- and I was never a fan of the flabby THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH.

I think "Goldeneye" works even though the score is awful. I've been on record before regarding my disdain for Dalton, so I think at the time I was more forgiving of the score just for the sake of having fun with a Bond film again (and Scorupco I think is an underrated Bond girl).

I never cared for Goldeneye. Agreed, the score helps sink the film, but the worst thing is how it makes Bond a "whipping boy" for third-wave feminism -- "You're a vain, misogynistic dinosaur", Izabella Scorupco chiding Bond with "Womyns studies" cliches ("Boys with toys!"), and even Moneypenny accusing Bond of "sexual harassment". (Ho-hum.)

Say what you like about Craig (and I agree) but Goldeneye is the most didactically woke of all the 007 flicks.

Paul MacLean wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:10 am Say what you like about Craig (and I agree) but Goldeneye is the most didactically woke of all the 007 flicks.

But it was never in lieu of being entertaining, whereas something like the recent Charlie's Angels reboot was supposedly a chiding, male-bashing bore.

Paul MacLean wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:10 am I never cared for Goldeneye. Agreed, the score helps sink the film, but the worst thing is how it makes Bond a "whipping boy" for third-wave feminism -- "You're a vain, misogynistic dinosaur", Izabella Scorupco chiding Bond with "Womyns studies" cliches ("Boys with toys!"), and even Moneypenny accusing Bond of "sexual harassment". (Ho-hum.)

Say what you like about Craig (and I agree) but Goldeneye is the most didactically woke of all the 007 flicks.

Frankly it never came off that way to me. I hated Judi Dench in the Craig films, but I could appreciate her as a foil for Brosnan, who still came off unapologetically as "old school". Samantha Bond might have talked back a bit as Moneypenny but it was still clear how she felt deep down and was still the same Moneypenny (Caroline Bliss with the glasses was the kind of Moneypenny image Lois Maxwell had fought hard against). And Scorupco was actually the first lead Bond girl to have so much as a bikini scene (top at least) since Jill St. John.

I couldn't stand Dench in GOLDENEYE. Nearly every line is a heavy-handed "woke before woke" line about Bond's rampant misogyny, how he's a "relic of the Cold War", lecturing him like he's a child. In the Craig movies she serves the same function but also acts as a motherly figure offsetting some of that.

I just found the writing Fierstein, Purvis and Wade gave her in the first two Brosnan movies, and GOLDENEYE especially, to be like nails on the chalkboard, and the writing in general is contrived ("you're like boys with toys" was a line my late friend and I bounced back and forth to each other for years). I agree with Paul, it's really too much in that picture.

Monterey Jack wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:19 am

Paul MacLean wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:10 am Say what you like about Craig (and I agree) but Goldeneye is the most didactically woke of all the 007 flicks.

But it was never in lieu of being entertaining, whereas something like the recent Charlie's Angels reboot was supposedly a chiding, male-bashing bore.

Well I never found Goldeneye very entertaining either. To be honest I actually prefer The Man With The Golden Gun! I haven't seen Charlie's Angels, but such a thing wouldn't bother me as much in in a film like that, since it isn't carrying on (or expected to carry on) the tradition of a series of films going back decades.

Eric Paddon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:27 am I hated Judi Dench in the Craig films, but I could appreciate her as a foil for Brosnan, who still came off unapologetically as "old school". Samantha Bond might have talked back a bit as Moneypenny but it was still clear how she felt deep down and was still the same Moneypenny (Caroline Bliss with the glasses was the kind of Moneypenny image Lois Maxwell had fought hard against).

I actually always liked Judi Dench -- once we were past her admonishment of Bond's "sexism" in Goldeneye (to which Bond -- totally out-of-character -- sheepishly responded "point taken").

And Scorupco was actually the first lead Bond girl to have so much as a bikini scene (top at least) since Jill St. John.

I actually never noticed the bikini! I'm not sure where the filmmakers were trying to go with Goldeneye -- though that was true of LALD and TLD as well.

I'd even argue GOLDENEYE is among the most dated of all the Bond films. Between the score, the tone and the dialogue, it absolutely screams "mid 90s" in a way none of its successors did -- at least they came off as more "classically Bond" with David Arnold's scoring.

I also thought Brosnan seemed very uptight and uncomfortable in the film -- and was much looser, and appealing, in TOMORROW NEVER DIES, which for me is the best of his films and has aged well, at least in comparison with the others (plus is one of the leanest 007s at the two-hour mark, and all the better for it).

Dench grew on me as M...I remember seeing GoldenEye and thinking the dialogue between her and Bond in the initial meeting in the film was over the top in-your-face, but as the series progressed...not sure how to say it...her M became more and more likeable and strong (she was out in the field in TWINE and SKYFALL). Next to Tracy Bond's death in OHMSS, her death in SKYFALL was a very emotional moment for me to where I did get teary-eyed in the theater. And at least for me that is a testament to how likeable and strong her character became despite, perhaps, a rough introduction in GoldenEye.

I thought if anything the ultimate "woke" comment was finding an excuse to keep Dench when they were doing a whole "rebooting" of Bond and his personal history. Right from the outset, I found it ridiculous that he had this close-Mommy type relationship with her even before he has a double-oh and the constant fixation on her as a plot point got more irritating. To me, Dench was a symbol of the Brosnan era and fit right in with the tone of those films and once they decided they were going to reboot they should have gone back to a Bernard Lee type M figure and established us with a traditional M-Moneypenny-Q right out of the box instead of dragging that along over several films (and giving us more PC recasting with black Moneypenny to go on top of black Leiter). But once they decided to keep Dench they weren't going to win me back on justifying her presence because to me it was a bad idea right out of the box.

Yawn.




Slick, Marvel-esque action, more of Craig's now-tired "wounded, brooding Bond" and all capped with loud, blunt, textureless music by Hans Zimmer's co-writers.

FFS

There always has to be someone complaining about something.