DARK KNIGHT Thread

[AndyDursin]

So analysts are expecting mass sell outs, a record breaking opening....I am excited but I'm also a little bit surprised. We've seen the Joker vs. Batman so many times before, and YES this is Nolan and it'll be serious and different, yet at the same time, is there really anything new here other than a movie that'll get all the comic book people flying off the handle?

And more over, will there be anything in the Zimmer/Newton Howard score worth listening to this time?

[mkaroly]

I have the CD and the liner notes by Christopher Nolan are interesting in that he hailes Zimmer and JNH for groundbreaking work- I have to wait and see how the music works in the movie. JNH's contributions sound like second generation David Julyan music and Zimmer sounds like Zimmer. Honestly, I don't hear anything all that different from the first score and I am trying to figure out why these scores are so complex and groundbreaking.

I am PUMPED to see this movie!

[Mike Skerritt]

We've seen the Joker vs. Batman so many times before, and YES this is Nolan and it'll be serious and different, yet at the same time, is there really anything new here other than a movie that'll get all the comic book people flying off the handle?

According to many of the prominent people who've seen the film (like Roger Ebert), yes.

[AndyDursin]

We've seen the Joker vs. Batman so many times before, and YES this is Nolan and it'll be serious and different, yet at the same time, is there really anything new here other than a movie that'll get all the comic book people flying off the handle?

According to many of the prominent people who've seen the film (like Roger Ebert), yes.

I know everyone in the world loves it -- just a couple of negative reviews here and there -- but I'm just curious myself to make up my own mind.

Admittedly I liked the first one a great deal but it was not perfect and had some pacing issues, as I noticed again on a second viewing the other night.

[Eric W.]

And more over, will there be anything in the Zimmer/Newton Howard score worth listening to this time?

I'd easily bet the "under" on this.

[AndyDursin]

And more over, will there be anything in the Zimmer/Newton Howard score worth listening to this time?

I'd easily bet the "under" on this.

I'd agree with that.

I'm still trying to figure out which show to check out tomorrow night...RI isn't like NYC so tickets will be available. My bet is the 10pm digital projection, which will allow me to buy the tickets ahead of time.

[Mike Skerritt]

I know everyone in the world loves it -- just a couple of negative reviews here and there -- but I'm just curious myself to make up my own mind.

Yup. I get mine on Sunday. I'm told there's an IMAX theater here in the area, so if I dig it you can bet I'll go again to see those action sequences writ large.

But I wasn't addressing the issue so much of whether it was as good as advertised. You'd asked if there was anything "new" about it and that's what I keep reading, that despite its source it's a legitimate sprawling crime drama with complex moral questions. Nolan has said that HEAT was a stylistic forbearer, so hopefully that holds true.

In any event, I just wanna see this sucker.

[scorehead]

I saw the film a few weeks ago with director Nolan in attendance, speaking about the film. It's definitely better than the first re-invented Bat venture, which I wasn't so hot about, but the director seems have streamlined his vision here and most of the film works spectacularly. Ledger is so good as the Joker, that to say that he doesn't keep this film afloat when it appears to bog down, would be to slight his contribution.

A lot of praise has been spouted about HELL BOY 2, but I walked out of it today, only having gotten into it for about 20 minutes (IMO a BIG disappointment). By contrast, THE DARK KNIGHT is moody, frenetic and a visual feast for the eyes. The film is a bit long in the tooth on running time, as it builds up such an intensity and suspense that it leaves you feeling bruised, but Ledger makes it more than worth the while to relax and hang onto your seat.

The best summer film yet and the bar for comic-book film adaptations has been permanently raised.

Best,

SH

[mkaroly]

Just got home from seeing a showing of the film. I was very pleased with it, although at times I had some problems following the action (especially towards the end). I thought hte acting was very good- Heath's performance was extremely good as well; after the film I thought about the differences between Nicholson's portrayal and Ledger's portrayal. The two films are VERY different, but what I liked about Ledger's performance was that he really came across as a legitimately unbalanced psychotic. His acting didn't seem forced or over-the-top (the hospital stuff was brillant); it's too bad he had to OD on drugs because I really would have liked to see a follow-up performance somewhere down the road. I think he deserves the praises he's been getting in the press for his performance. The makeup was freaky without being too much, so kudos to everyone for doing just enough and not crossing that line into farsical fantasy.

Then there was Harvey Dent. I liked Aaron Eckhart's performance as well and how the story played that whole White Knight/Dark Knight thing. I like duality in super-hero characters and this movie was full of that kind of stuff. Again, as I was driving home I thought back to how cartoonish the Schumaker films were and how un-dimensional Tommy Lee Jones' Harvy Dent/Two Face was. Those were different films too, but this time there was pathos woven into Harvey's character and I really appreciated that he had dimensionality. And I like how his character's goodness was used against him by the Joker. Well-done.

Christian Bale was good as was the rest of the cast. I liked the story. The visuals are gorgeous and very stylistic in my opinion. Nolan didn't spend a whole lot of time on the romance in the story, which was good. The best thing I can say about the movie is that I know I will watch it several times when it comes out on DVD to pick up on more of the subtleties and nuances in the story and performances. I think there's a lot to digest in it.

A few things I would mention as "negatives"- I still don't like how they change Bale's voice as Batman- it sounds too weird, as if he's struggling to speak. They have to do something, but his Batman voice really sounds forced and unnatural. Something a little "less" would be better, in my opinion. Then there's the music. I noticed in the credits that Zimmer and JNH had approximately six orchestrators on this film and three conductors- none of whom were the composers. I don't understand why Nolan called their music for BATMAN BEGINS "more innovative than people realized". How? The music did the same thing it did in the first film- it was aural wallpaper. I didn't hear anything new outside of the Joker stuff. It just isn't that great in my opinion. I never cared for Zimmer anyway and this doesn't help matters much. Finally, I didn't much care for the Batcycle- seemed an awkward design to me.

All in all, I was very pleased with the film and am anxious to see deleted scenes, etc. when the DVD comes out. The CD tray has an insert that was definitely not in the movie, and I wonder how much of the film hit the cutting room floor. This has been a very exciting and rewarding summer for super-hero films. IRON MAN, THE INCREDIBLE HULK, and now THE DARK KNIGHT. This is definitely a film worth watching a few times.

Be warned: trailers show Jennifer Connelly and Keanu Reeves (how in the world does he still get offers to do movies? UGH!) for THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL remake. I will DEFINTIELY be skipping that film, as it looks like a turkey (Reeves' presence doesn't help me want to see it at all). Can't wait to hear the rest of the comments after the Aisle Seat faithful see the movie- enjoy!!

[Jedbu]

The
best
superhero
film
EVER!!

153 minutes flew by-never once did I find myself saying "get on with it." Nolan has created a FILM, not just a superhero or comic-book movie. Not one of the performances felt false or cartoony and the characters are developed and thought-out beautifully.

Bale-not as much character as the previous film, but he inhabits the character of Wayne and the suit of the Bat in a manner to equal the greatness of Reeve as Superman. If he and Nolan want to make a third film, let me know when and I will be there opening day.

Eckhart-the handsome blond-haired boy as the non-caped crusader gives the performance of his career and makes the switch to Two-Face credible and heartbreaking

Gyllenhaal has what Katie Holmes lacks-depth and weight for the character. Her last scene in the film will break your heart.

Freeman, Caine-'nuff said.

And Ledger-well. . . perhaps the greatest screen villain since Hopkins' in SILENCE OF THE LAMBS (before he forgot how to play Lecter with some subtlety) and one to rank up there with Welles' Harry Lime and Brando's Don Corleone. This is not the Nicholson Joker or the Romero one, either. This is one seriously f***ed up creature who is evil not for money or for power but for the sake of being evil. Funny one second and in the next frame a moral black hole, Ledger's Joker grabs you by the throat from the start and never lets go. For me, the scene where he is being interrogated and the one at Gotham Hospital when he pays a visit, IMHO seal the deal for an Oscar for him. I cannot imagine anyone in that category even coming close this year, and I would be saying this even if he had not tragically died. This is one of those performances that acting students and film historians will be looking at for a long time. To have been on the set to watch him work must have been astounding. Paraphrasing two directors in 1947: "No more Ledger. Worse-no more Ledger performances."

Nolan's direction is spot on and only continues to astonish me. Since MEMENTO he has continued to grow as an artist, and who knows how far he can go. I would rank him as one of our best working directors, and since this film shows he is good both with straight drama and staging action, kudos to him. Cinematography, editing, production design, visual effects-no complaints here.

As for the score, this betters the BATMAN BEGINS score. Is it up there with Elfman's score to the first Burton film? Maybe not, but not much is, as far as I am concerned. The combination of Zimmer and Howard works for me-Howard gives Zimmer humanity and Zimmer gives Howard adrenaline. I will be getting this score and also seeing the film a second and maybe third time-this time in IMAX!

[AndyDursin]

I liked it -- a lot -- but I didn't love it.

Obviously there's tons of good -- the way the film is shot, Ledger's performance (even if there are drawbacks to his screen time -- more on that in a moment), the constant, if sometimes overpowering, sense of dread. There are some wonderful scenes, yet just like its predecessor, I felt there were some issues with pacing and the central story.

Principally, I thought Ledger was brilliant, absolutely -- but it seemed that Nolan was slavish to keeping every shot of The Joker and "preserving his performance" as he's said, to the point where he overpowered everything else in the movie. Batman is basically like a secondary character in this film once again, much like Michael Keaton was back in the original BATMAN to Jack Nicholson, and because of that I felt the movie had an odd focus at times with no real center anchoring it down.

You throw in Harvey Dent and I just thought the movie was too much at times -- after 2.5 hours I felt Ledger's Joker was plenty of "bad" for one movie to handle, and I wasn't entirely sold on the whole "Two Face" character. Sure I get the point of it, and I understand what Nolan was trying to say there, but dramatically I felt it threw the story off-course a bit in the final third and overall I was never convinced it was necessary.

I also wished the movie's pacing had also taken more time to anchor Bruce Wayne's character -- there should have been more pauses, and more scenes with him and Alfred (Michael Caine, who basically does precious little here).

Instead it just kind of keeps going and going, and after a while I felt it became redundant...here's a scene where the Joker crashes a party and something bad happens. Here's a scene where the Joker terrorizes the commissioner's funeral and something bad happens. Here's a scene where Harvey Dent is riding in a police car and something bad happens. The Joker's in a jail cell and...guess what...something bad happens. And on and on.

I just kept sitting there knowing "something bad is gonna happen" in nearly every scene, and after a while, the picture exhausted me, as well as became predictable. The script felt like it needed another pass or two, because there are some wonderful scenes and moments within it, but it needed something to break up its structure. And again, the JNH/Zimmer score didn't work for me at all -- this time it felt like LOST with one-note, portentous music signaling well ahead of time when something awful was about to happen. Which was, basically, every 10 minutes or so.

I also noticed some very unusual (for this day and age) audio mixing -- the entire Harvey Dent party once the Joker enters all sounds completely "live" with no overdubs (and very low music), probably because that was the only audio of Ledger they had. It made for an effective and more "realistic" sequence because of it.

Now, don't get me wrong -- I still found this to be a darned good film. But I think there is a hysteria among some people to overpraise its virtues mainly because of the whole Ledger situation. This is not to diminish his performance, either, because he IS spectacular here, but I do wonder if he was still alive, if some of the reviews wouldn't have at least mentioned that the Joker character overpowered the movie -- again. Instead they're all talking Oscar, which makes for great copy, but frankly, taking it objectively, I think there was too much of the character in the final cut to the point where it became a bit excessive.

And detracted from Batman, most importantly. This hero seems to get the short end of the stick in terms of his importance in most of the films that's been made of his adventures, and while I wouldn't say Bale became Michael Keaton here, as Jeff said he definitely took a step backwards in terms of his character's overall "presence" if you will. In the second half of the movie his role is basically thankless.

Otherwise, it's definitely a good show, with Maggie Gyllenhaal a major improvement (expectedly) on Katie Holmes. Wish Caine and Freeman had more to do, though, and what was up with Anthony Michael Hall?

Also, these are just pet peeves but:

1. Agreed with Michael on Batman's voice. I don't get it. And not only that but it was even harder to understand this time.

2. The scene where the Joker crashes Harvey's party...why was there no resolution to it? Batman saves Rachel but the Joker is still inside...yet the scene just ended abruptly and cut to the next day. Weird.

3. The Scarecrow's cameo was a waste of time. The guy is the big bad in the original movie and he gets disposed of in about 60 seconds? Why even bother?

4. The guy from LOST who played the Mayor had WAY too much eyeliner in one sequence. Somebody in the make-up dept. did him no favors because even my wife mentioned it. Aah, the beauty of digital projection

Overall is it worth seeing? Absolutely. Worth buying on Blu-Ray? Absolutely. Is it gonna clean up at the box-office? Hey, no doubt. Is it flawless and the greatest superhero movie EVER made the way some people are boasting? Not for me, but it sure has some great things in it.

[mkaroly]

The media critics who are talking about Oscar for Ledger are overdoing it, in my opinion. Had Ledger not OD's on drugs, I'd bet that this movie would have made him one of the most in-demand A-list actors out there. I agree that Batman' character took a back seat throughout the film- maybe in an effort to preserve Ledger's performance Nolan cut Bale stuff out, so hopefully there will be deleted scenes we can see on DVD which "fill in the gaps".

[AndyDursin]

Just to clarify as well what I wrote about Ledger -- his performance is sensational. Not sure if he was alive that anyone would be "talking Oscar," but it's still a phenomenal job -- the kind of role actors love to play. In fact he was even more effective than I ever thought he would've been...I always liked him as an actor but for me some of his better work was his earliest roles, in teen fare like "10 Things" or backing up Mel Gibson so effectively in "The Patriot". I felt a lot of his career ended up lost in poor choices and unsuccessful films. THIS role really did show how superb he could be in a crazy psychotic role, and definitely would have boosted his career had he lived to see it.

My issue isn't with his performance or its effectiveness, just in how the script was written and how much of the character overpowered, in terms of screen time, Batman along with everything else in the movie.

[Monterey Jack]

Supposedly Nolan's original cut clocked in around three hours, so that might explain some of the film's weird narrative hiccups (like the anticlimactic end to the "party" sequence). Hopefully a director's cut will help fill in some of the gaps and make the whole experience a bit smoother.

Overall, I loved the film. The score still sucks (what happened to themes in superhero movies? All I could discern over the sound effects was the same "chugga-chugga-chugga" string/synth rhythm looped over and over), and Bale did get swallowed up by the myriad subplots (I agree on the Scarecrow getting wasted...why bring him back for that?), but I was completely engrossed throughout, and Ledger's performance is something to see (his "pencil trick" got the film's best audience reaction moment ). Great film. Here's hoping they won't ruin a potential trilogy by handing the third movie over to Brett Ratner.

[AndyDursin]

The media critics who are talking about Oscar for Ledger are overdoing it, in my opinion. Had Ledger not OD's on drugs, I'd bet that this movie would have made him one of the most in-demand A-list actors out there. I agree that Batman' character took a back seat throughout the film- maybe in an effort to preserve Ledger's performance Nolan cut Bale stuff out, so hopefully there will be deleted scenes we can see on DVD which "fill in the gaps".

I'm sure Anthony Michael Hall had to be left on the cutting room floor. He's in probably about 4 total shots (on TV monitors anchoring news coverage), and is also one of the hostages at the end of the film, but unless you were looking for him I can't imagine most audiences would have connected it together.