Theo Cinema: ATLANTIS - THE LOST EMPIRE (WOEFULLY Bad)

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AndyDursin
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Theo Cinema: ATLANTIS - THE LOST EMPIRE (WOEFULLY Bad)

#1 Post by AndyDursin »

Showing movies to a (near) 6-year-old has been an enjoyable experience -- trying to figure out where I was when I first saw ___ movie, trying to remember when I may have actually started to LIKE ___ movie, and the general "is this appropriate for MY child" sentiment (every kid is different!) all factor in when we sit down to watch a "Movie Night" on the couch.

Theo is sensitive and there are some movies I want to show him but I know he's not ready -- this includes BABY: SECRET OF THE LOST LEGEND, which you might think would be perfect with the dinosaur plot. Yet there are some very violent moments -- the father Brontosaurus getting shot with blood dripping out of his neck and several other killings -- that I know he would be upset by. (That's also the central problem with that movie, which would be ideal family fare but veers into adult-territory too many times to make it suitable for little kids).

That said we like to keep it at home as much as possible since so many of these kid flicks are lame (I don't need to sit through ZOOTOPIA or SECRET LIFE OF PETS ever again). Thus, we've gone through STAR WARS the original trilogy (liked it, not sure he understood ALL of it), SUPERMAN 1, E.T., and a smattering of Disney flicks so far. He also managed to make it through all of JURASSIC PARK, albeit probably because we've shown him "clips" from the main sequences via Youtube here and there (he only got upset when Laura Dern discovered Sam Jackson's hand!). He also loves Pokemon so POKEMON: DETECTIVE PIKACHU is a favorite (and, surprise, it's actually not bad!).

He didn't care for JUMANJI (may have been too intense) and THE GOONIES, though like his dad, it's not a favorite movie of mine anyway. (I'd love to show him GREMLINS...but I think he needs to be a year or two into the grade school years to make that feasible. We're not there yet!).

I need to try CLASH OF THE TITANS...or probably some earlier Ray Harryhausen.

At any rate, much like Monterey Jack's "Movies with the Nephew" thread, I'd like to keep a running journal here of what we've watched when I get a chance.

The good news is, no matter what, he is definitely glued into these films -- he likes watching them on the big TV too, which I'm happy with because too many kids are inseparable from tablets and phones. We've consciously decided against that -- we've had people commend us on going out to eat without him needing an electronic device to keep him occupied -- and I can tell it's worked because he gets some 'screen time' but usually is good about giving it up or back. And he's happier watching a show on the TV instead of the tablet, which is better for eye sight anyway!

SPACECAMP

This one seemed to be a good one for kids and it was a wise choice that kept him engaged. Just a couple of typical "s---t" lines (typical of the time; witness SHORT CIRCUIT, which he liked a lot) on the "adult" end.

The movie isn't bad -- he liked it a lot and wanted to see the end (most of these we break up into "two parts"). It just doesn't have the magic of real Spielberg productions and had no chance after the Challenger disaster to become successful...in fact the scene where the robot runs the scenario about the shuttle crashing was probably unbearable back in 1986 to watch. Yet there was no way around it -- you couldn't just reshoot here and there without adjusting the entire plot. They were stuck.

Theo did get (quietly) upset when Kate Capshaw's character got knocked out. He actually teared up a little though he didn't say anything until we asked him -- which is the kind of thing where we need to monitor just "how PG" you go for someone about to hit 6. (Which is why I don't think we can do BABY yet)

But he was engaged by it, especially once it got rolling along. The effects weren't great but good enough...I also wonder if Kino Lorber's Blu-Ray gamma levels were (as they sometimes are) set too high because matte lines were more obvious than they should have been.

John Williams' score is good -- not one of his best, but it obviously has some nice moments and the End Credits is superb. Did Lionel Newman end up ghost writing/"adapting" some of this and/or conducting it because Williams had somewhere else to go? I wonder because he's given "Special Thanks" at the end of the credits, and we know the movie was a disaster to make (doubled its budget during filming and the production took months longer than expected), which is why I wonder if Williams had to leave at a certain point. Newman is credited with "producing" the music on the soundtrack too. (The liner notes in the Intrada CD don't really go into Newman's involvement at all except he was part of "Williams' team") :?:

Anyway, a nice recommendation for kids with SPACECAMP. The movie's shortcomings aren't so great that it can't be enjoyed by little ones, and while adults may have wanted "more" (the film seems kind of "empty", especially in its second half, as if it had been pared down -- and then it just ends), it's sufficient for the family audience that it never really had a chance to get back in its era.

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Monterey Jack
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Re: Theo Cinema: SPACECAMP (1986)

#2 Post by Monterey Jack »

Great idea for the thread, Andy! :) While my experiences with the nephew have obviously been different to yours with Theo (the 'phew was around 13-14 when I showed him his first Godzilla movie, and he's been well over 18 and capable of watching "the good stuff" for a while), this is always an exciting time in the life of an avid movie fan with children -- or, in my case, a gaggle of nieces and nephews -- when they get to show them the movies they grew up on and see how they play for "the kids these days".

I still enjoyed SpaceCamp when I re-visited it via the Kino Blu about two years back. The mediocre F/X lack the polish of the larger-budgeted Amblin productions of the era, and there's definitely a lot of cheese in the proceedings (l'il "Leaf" Phoenix's mechanical buddy seems like the specific inspiration for "80's Robot" from The Muppets :lol: ), but the acting is fine, you have the frizzy-haired 80's hotness troika of Lea Thompson, Kelly Preston and Kate Capshaw, and Williams' score is sublime. Interesting musing about if Lionel Newman may have done some uncredited ghostwriting, but maybe he just conducted it, like he did for a lot of Jerry Goldsmith efforts in the 70's and early 80's? The score sounds like any other Williams score from the era to me (the awful "drum machine" cue aside, which I always skip over), and in fact sounds like it was cut from the same cloth as his Amazing Stories score to "The Mission", which I listened to again last night.

Anyways, keep updating the thread where possible! Sadly my nephew has been going though some issues lately, and our movie nights have tailed off dramatically over the last year. :(

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AndyDursin
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Re: Theo Cinema: SPACECAMP (1986)

#3 Post by AndyDursin »

Sorry to hear that MJ, I always enjoyed reading your thread.

I do wonder about Newman's involvement. Had to have been somewhat integral to carry that kind of a placement in the end credits. And I can't think of any other Williams scores that were "Produced by Lionel Newman" either :?

Lea Thompson mentioned in her interview on the Kino disc that the filming stretched beyond its intended finishing point by literally 3 months. I don't know about Williams' Pops schedule but he may have needed Newman to work on the score or do something with it, conduct or what have you...though '86 was a quiet year for him on the movie scoring front.

I'm just rambling but I find it curious!

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Paul MacLean
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Re: Theo Cinema: SPACECAMP (1986)

#4 Post by Paul MacLean »

AndyDursin wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:41 pm Did Lionel Newman end up ghost writing/"adapting" some of this and/or conducting it because Williams had somewhere else to go? I wonder because he's given "Special Thanks" at the end of the credits, and we know the movie was a disaster to make (doubled its budget during filming and the production took months longer than expected), which is why I wonder if Williams had to leave at a certain point.
I read that when the Peter Pan musical (which Williams was going to do with Spielberg) got derailed, it left a gap open in his schedule, so he took the offer to score SpaceCamp.

As the most sought-after film composer in the world, I find it odd that Williams chose SpaceCamp of all the offers piled onto his agent's desk, but oh well.

Lionel Newman was running the Fox music department at the time, and was tight with Williams. Newman also "produced" (i.e. supervised / presided over) the Star Wars original trilogy sessions, so he was likely serving the same role for SpaceCamp.

I doubt very much that Williams would have enlisted Newman to "ghost". Newman specialized more in conducting (he conducted a number of Goldsmith's scores -- Sand Pebbles, Omen scores, Alien, Star Trek: The Motion Picture).

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Re: Theo Cinema: SPACECAMP (1986)

#5 Post by AndyDursin »

Then I wonder if he conducted some of it. I find it curious he'd carry that kind of "Special Thanks" credit.

I think Williams thought this was going to be a big hit. Maybe it would've been if the shuttle hadn't blown up, though it's really an expensive TV movie (ABC produced it, TV mogul Leonard Goldberg hired a TV director to direct it, etc.). One of the few times his instincts for choosing solid projects eluded him.

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Re: Theo Cinema: SPACECAMP (1986)

#6 Post by Eric Paddon »

I went through this for the first time a little over a year ago and it took me three days/settings to do it, because that's how uninvolved/cynical I was to everything before me. I didn't have the luxury of seeing it as a teenager to appreciate it for nostalgia sake even though I knew the main theme from the concert arrangement Williams did on his "By Request" CD that got a LOT of play time from me back in the late 80s (because it had things like the Olympic Fanfare, Liberty Weekend, the NBC News "Mission" theme and the best arrangement of the Midway March). My problem is that I've read too much about the Challenger disaster as and the fxxxed up mess that NASA really was back in the day while they were trying to sell the hype about civilians in space and fifty flights a year that "Spacecamp" at its core represents. If you haven't read about that stuff it's possible to approach a film like this with more innocence and an open mind and my problem is I can't.

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Re: Theo Cinema: SPACECAMP (1986)

#7 Post by AndyDursin »

I've read some stuff about the Challenger disaster and NASA's shortcomings over the years, but the movie is a pure fantasy...and was intended to be accepted as such. At no point in this movie did I ever think that something along those lines could ever happen or was portrayed in even a quasi-realistic manner...I mean a talking robot is responsible for somehow launching them into orbit.

It's no more real life than STAR WARS so it bears almost zero resemblance to reality. If it was meant to prop up NASA, sure, I guess it could leave you with a bitter taste given what happened, though I didn't even think it did a good job selling what Space Camp itself actually is.

Instead of encouraging space travel, more likely it made kids generate the reaction Theo had at the end -- "I do NOT want to go to Space Camp!" :lol:

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Re: Theo Cinema: SPACECAMP (1986)

#8 Post by Eric Paddon »

Oh I agree it's pure fantasy as a film and it's not that I'm taking the film's story per se seriously. What it represented to me was the PR image of NASA that I used to buy into as a kid in the early 80s. Back then, when we made trips to Washington, the first place on the agenda was *always* the Air And Space Museum, in part because I wasn't just fascinated by the history of spaceflight but because I bought into the PR about how widespread and widescale this is going to be. My only visit to Kennedy Space Center during one of our Florida trips was during this period too. So in that respect, when I saw "Spacecamp" I was reminded of how I felt in the early 80s during those trips as a 12-14 year old and how ultimately post-Challenger I felt like I'd been sold a bill of goods.

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Re: Theo Cinema: SPACECAMP (1986)

#9 Post by AndyDursin »

That's fair. I was in 5th grade when the Challenger exploded and I remember the "Young Astronaut's Program" being a big thing with one of the 6th grade classes (who were, sadly, watching it live like a lot of school kids that day).

The following year we were in the class that had the program, and I remember staying after school for a few minutes where we built a bunch of lame paper airplanes and stuff. I don't think our teacher held it very often, nobody really was into it.

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Paul MacLean
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Re: Theo Cinema: SPACECAMP (1986)

#10 Post by Paul MacLean »

AndyDursin wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:32 am I think Williams thought this was going to be a big hit. Maybe it would've been if the shuttle hadn't blown up, though it's really an expensive TV movie (ABC produced it, TV mogul Leonard Goldberg hired a TV director to direct it, etc.). One of the few times his instincts for choosing solid projects eluded him.
I remember when I saw the full-page ad in the NY Times for SpaceCamp, and thought two things. 1) Oh man, this movie is doomed at the box office. 2) I'll be buying the soundtrack! :mrgreen:

I'm sure it would have made more money had the Challenger tragedy not occurred, but I doubt it would have been a hit. "Spielbergian" escapist kids' films were running out of steam by this point, and being outpaced by flicks catering to the "MTV generation". SpaceCamp, a wholesome "whiz kids in space" movie (scored by John Williams) was out of step with the drummer in the summer of Top Gun and Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

I even remember people around the mid 80s starting to bust on John Williams as "old fashioned" and "always writing the same music".

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Re: Theo Cinema: SPACECAMP (1986)

#11 Post by AndyDursin »

February vacation "camp" was canceled Tues-Fri. because the teacher was sick -- so that meant 4 days of "Daddy Camp". As always I managed to sneak in a matinee each day! (while being very thankful I wrote and posted the column last week lol).

GORGO
This one was right up Theo's alley and really does remain one of the better Giant Monster flicks. Thin story but it's reasonably well executed. The Blu-Ray VCI produced is very strange and was seemingly assembled from a handful of different sources -- the end credits go up an octave right when Angelo Lavagnino's fine score comes to an end -- but it's watchable...maybe the best you can do if the original negative doesn't exist.

GODZILLA VS MEGALON
Theo has seen some of the "Showa era" Godzillas and "Megalon" was probably the one that I was most exposed to as a kid (as I imagine was the case for most kids in the late 70s and early 80s; it seemed to be on TV the most and was readily available on any number of cheap, terrible public-domain VHS releases). It's also routinely cited as being the worst Godzilla -- though honestly, I found it kind of goofy fun this time around. The 2nd half offers an agreeable, long-form brawl between Godzilla, Megalon and Jet Jaguar, and the horrendously bad (or IS it) score adds to the entertainment. Theo enjoyed this one, even if wasn't "the best." The abbreviated running time is definitely a plus (watched the Criterion disc, which has the English dub), which keeps the filler to the movie's first half.

DESTROY ALL MONSTERS
Now this one WAS "the best" lol. Any kid would love this movie's golden roster of Toho creature faves, in a silly story that's a little TOO convoluted but still didn't bore him at all. I have a copy of the original Tokyo Shock Blu-Ray with the multiple English dubs, so I put the "AIP dub" or whatever it was on. Sadly portions of it were obviously damaged and there are dropouts, especially early on. That said, I think this was a 10/10 on the kid scale, and I remember having the same reaction to it after I figured out the monsters were basically being "coerced" into being bad by the aliens.

GODZILLA VS. MECHAGODZILLA
I have to say this was probably the lamest Godzilla film I've come across so far as I go through the earlier 'Zillas with Theo -- outside the major confrontation between Big G and the robot version, the story is boring and the aliens ridiculous, though their transformation into monkey-masked aliens upon their demise was enough to creep Theo out. There's also "edgier gore" in blood spurting out of Godzilla's neck and Mechagodzilla nearly ripping Angurious' mouth apart, which I didn't really appreciate either lol. Of the 4, this was the lowest of the lot -- I'd argue "Megalon" was more entertaining to be honest, as its story was simpler and more appealing.

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Re: Theo Cinema: (Nearly) A Quartet of Godzillas!

#12 Post by AndyDursin »

PEE-WEE'S BIG ADVENTURE

This was PERFECT. And really kind of needed for Joanne and I also after the last couple of weeks. This one is as lively and funny as I recall -- it's Burton's least pretentious film, and honestly, for me it's the best "Danny Elfman score" of them all. The energy it brings to the film, the melodic content and how it punctuates the entire atmosphere of this film is just marvelous. The humor -- the climactic chase in particular -- holds up as do a number of individual moments in the movie (the Tequila bit, Jan Hooks touring visitors in the Alamo). Perfect for young kids and adults looking to escape from the world at the moment also.

It also brought me back to when my Mom took me to see it in theaters with my grandmother during the summer of '85. I remember her gasping in horror after 5 minutes ("what IS this" and "who IS this guy") and us nearly leaving, to her rolling in the aisles with laughter during the rest of it. Once she "got it", she loved it.

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Paul MacLean
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Re: Theo Cinema: Pee-Wee's Big Adventure

#13 Post by Paul MacLean »

Will you be showing Pee-Wee's whacked-out TV show to Theo as well? :lol:


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AndyDursin
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Re: Theo Cinema: Pee-Wee's Big Adventure

#14 Post by AndyDursin »

I'm going to hold off on that for now! :D

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Re: Theo Cinema: Pee-Wee's Big Adventure

#15 Post by AndyDursin »

THE THREE MUSKETEERS (1993)

A solid winner all around.

I only saw this once in theaters but remember liking it -- it's held up extremely well too, offering kid-friendly action and comedy minus the bloated FX of the PIRATES sequels and most modern Disney spectacles. The European location shooting looks gorgeous in HD with Dean Semler's widescreen lensing going a long way to selling the picture, and the cast is laid back but invested, even with top billed Charlie Sheen taking a backseat to the action (I was not surprised to learn Sheen had to take Oliver Platt's role after HOT SHOTS PART DEUX's shooting ran late; he apparently didn't train for the movie like the others as well, which explains why most all of the heavy acting load was left to Kiefer Sutherland, though that's not a bad thing!).

David Loughery's script distills Dumas down to a Saturday Matinee adventure for kids, but it's more accessible for them than the Lester films, wisely removing some of the "adult" aspects and concentrating on D'Artagnan's central quest. Chris O'Donnell is fine (moppy hair and all) opposite the Brat-Packers, and Gabrielle Anwar and Julie Delpy get to fill out the attractive female parts even though they have little to do (this was pre-Girl Power after all). Rebecca DeMornay and Tim Curry are also fine, even if most of Curry's lines aren't exactly kneeslappers (the area where the STAR TREK V writer's script comes up short). Plus we get Michael Wincott doing his thing also -- and Paul McGann offering strictly comic relief -- the cast really is great in this.

Theo got a major kick out of the movie's energy and Joanne and I were both entertained by the movie and his reaction to it. I wouldn't say it's a classic but it's very underrated IMO -- a polished and fun studio picture -- most of the mixed reviews it received at the time of its release seemed directed at the casting and not the film.

One other thing I really enjoyed was Michael Kamen's score. This is one of his best IMO, possessing a real exuberance and joy that I think was absent from a lot of his ROBIN HOOD score. Kamen cold run hot and cold at times, but he was very committed here for whatever reason, writing a lively and lyrical work that ought to be expanded by Intrada at some point. I noticed he recorded it in L.A., but no matter, he was "on his game" here, and while I'm not a fan of the Rod Stewart/Sting/Bryan Adams single he wrote, the theme itself, as used in the film, works great...that last track that closes out the film is just terrific.

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